Negative XP for Level Adjustment?

3catcircus · Mar 20, 2005

Anyone using this concept? Simply start a +1 LA PC at -1000 xp, a +2 LA at -3000 xp, etc.

No need to keep track of the fancy bookkeeping and ECL - when you get to 1000 xp, you advance to 2nd level in your character class.

BiggusGeekus · Mar 20, 2005

That might work for +1 races or even +2 races, but you may run into the same kind of issues once you get higher. No idea. I'm just guessing.

It sounds simiar to the buy-off option in Unearthed Arcana, which I quite like.

Coredump · Mar 20, 2005

3catcircus said:
Anyone using this concept? Simply start a +1 LA PC at -1000 xp, a +2 LA at -3000 xp, etc.

No need to keep track of the fancy bookkeeping and ECL - when you get to 1000 xp, you advance to 2nd level in your character class.

Can I do that with my Human fighter also? I will start with the rest of the party at first level, except I will be 5th level, but have -10,000 xp.

We will all adventure together... I may be a bit stronger, faster, better, but that is okay.

After a long time, we will all get 10,000, so they will be level 5 like me.

Then another 10,000 XP later, I am 10th level, and they are almost 7th.

I can't wait to play....

3catcircus · Mar 20, 2005

I guess I should have specified that this was for LA Races +1 or higher only - no gestalt paragon planar substitution levels or LA +0 races. A human fighter would start out at 1st level with 0 XP, just like every other 1st level human fighter. A Drow (LA +2) fighter, on the other hand, would start out at 1st level with -3000 XP and an Aasimar (LA +1) fighter would start out at 1st level with -1000 XP. A LA +3 would start out at -6000 xp and a LA +4 would start out at -10000 xp.

And, as for your example - first - you'd have to be a LA +4 race (for argument's sake, we'll make your character race Illithid) - you'd start out with one fighter level, and with -10,000 xp. You'd have to get 11,000 xp to get to 2nd level, while everyone else would only need 1000 xp. By the time you got the 20,000 xp necessary to reach a positive 10,000 xp and 5th level, everyone else would almost be 7th level.

Coredump said:
Can I do that with my Human fighter also? I will start with the rest of the party at first level, except I will be 5th level, but have -10,000 xp.

We will all adventure together... I may be a bit stronger, faster, better, but that is okay.

After a long time, we will all get 10,000, so they will be level 5 like me.

Then another 10,000 XP later, I am 10th level, and they are almost 7th.

I can't wait to play....

DragonTurtle · Mar 20, 2005

How do you resolve balance issues, the 1st level Illithid Fighter would be more powerful than the 1st level halfling rogue by a longshot. Would goblins be a problem to the party with the one troll fighter in its midst?

Crothian · Mar 20, 2005

It starts in favor of the ecl character in the early game, then the other PCs will catch up, but in the late game the ecl character once again will be more powerful.

With the guy with ecl+4; by the time everyone else is 11th level he will be 10th level. That makes his total ecl 14 verse 11 for the rest of the players.

Coredump · Mar 20, 2005

And, as for your example - first - you'd have to be a LA +4 race (for argument's sake, we'll make your character race Illithid) - you'd start out with one fighter level, and with -10,000 xp. You'd have to get 11,000 xp to get to 2nd level, while everyone else would only need 1000 xp. By the time you got the 20,000 xp necessary to reach a positive 10,000 xp and 5th level, everyone else would almost be 7th level.

Hmmmm... I forgot the smart-ass sarcasm tags....

I realize what you meant, I was using this to highlight a point.
First, you will have a 'first level' party, with an illithid character. May not be a problem when encountering those kobolds...

Second, at 10,000XP, we are fairly even, cool. But at 20,000

Do you really think an illithid fighter 5 is the same as a human fighter 6-7?

And by lvl 11ish, they will both be the same level fighter, but one will be an illithid.

(BTW, this also ignoring the fact that LA is an adjustment to be added to the HD of the creature to find ECL adjustment.)

RandomPrecision · Mar 20, 2005

I don't know. I think using ECL or monster classes would be just as simple or simpler than negative amounts of experience.

Except that Illithid is a 15 level monster class...ouch. A 6th level Illithid fighter could/should/would travel with epic characters.

3catcircus · Mar 21, 2005

I dunno the exact LA of the Illithid, since I didn't have my copy of Underdark handy... My point was that more powerful races starting with an ECL is, as per the core rules, a bit unwieldy on the book-keeping. My suggested alternative is simply to make the number crunching easier since all you have to do is keep adding until you get to the xp required for the next level (which is the same for everyone, unlike the existing ECL rules...)

RandomPrecision said:
I don't know. I think using ECL or monster classes would be just as simple or simpler than negative amounts of experience.

Except that Illithid is a 15 level monster class...ouch. A 6th level Illithid fighter could/should/would travel with epic characters.

RandomPrecision · Mar 21, 2005

The 15 level thing was from Savage Species.

It's not that unwieldy, is it? If a 1st level fighter has the half-fiend template (+4 LA), they have an ECL of 5 (1+4), so they need as much experience to level up as a 5th level character. You could think of the player as having four levels of half-fiend (or whatever) if necessary. Just write down the level adjustment on the character sheet of whoever needs it.

Negative XP for Level Adjustment?

3catcircus

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