Gary Gygax Q&A, Part IX - Page 86


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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelHardisson
    Edition wars are no fun. It's a game. Don't take it so seriously. If anything divides gamers, it's that.
    This isn't a statement of denigration. D&D (original, Moldvay/Cook, Mentzer) and AD&D were two different games. The current d20 Fantasy, 2nd Edition is a different game from both.
    Words of wisdom from Gary Gygax:

    From my perspective wanting less in the way of rules constraints comes from being a veteran Game Master who feels confident that more good material comes from imagination and player interaction with the environment than from textbook rules material.
    more words of wisdom:

    • Rashness and foolhardiness are harbingers of death, as is timidity, in such adventure setting.
    • Those that complain about real challenges might be better off playing Candyland with their little sister
    • First and foremost, munchkinism arose as a contemporary of the OD&D game. Nothing in the rules of that or any other version of the game was needed to make it flourish.
    • There is no relationship between 3E and original D&D, or OAD&D for that matter. Different games, style, and spirit.
    • [E]xperience has taught me that everyone has their own gaming preferences, and it is not a matter of "good" or "bad" in all, save in light of one's own preferences.

 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlegamer
    Barbarian sub-class, Unearthed Arcana.
    Not to mention magic-users and the monk class...

    Cheers,
    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlegamer
    Barbarian sub-class, Unearthed Arcana.
    If you go back to my earlier post, the point was that all versions of D&D are very much magic gear oriented. This works great... for D&D. However, loads of magic gear (and even just significant armor) is not indicative in many (though obviously not all) of the mythological and fantasy fiction we grew up with. How does a bare-chested barbarian with no magical healing an AC 6 survive to high levels? Robin Hood & his Merry Men? The Three Musketeers? Lightly armored rangers in LotR? A Hyborian Age jungle fighter? Like I was saying, the game isn't really geared to handle a lot of the settings it drew inspiration from. At some point you could add enough house rules to make it work, but at what point would you be better off with another system?

    Cheers!

    A'koss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A'koss
    If you go back to my earlier post, the point was that all versions of D&D are very much magic gear oriented. This works great... for D&D. However, loads of magic gear (and even just significant armor) is not indicative in many (though obviously not all) of the mythological and fantasy fiction we grew up with. How does a bare-chested barbarian with no magical healing an AC 6 survive to high levels? Robin Hood & his Merry Men? The Three Musketeers? Lightly armored rangers in LotR? A Hyborian Age jungle fighter? Like I was saying, the game isn't really geared to handle a lot of the settings it drew inspiration from. At some point you could add enough house rules to make it work, but at what point would you be better off with another system?

    Cheers!

    A'koss.
    How many mythological and fantasy characters could survive more than a few "rounds" of hand to hand combat without being killed?

    If you focus on the pure details of combat, you are sure to be disappointed by AD&D; however, AD&D is not all about combat.

    (The Barbarian sub-class doesn't need any magic to have very low armor class, and can provide his own non-magical healing through his survival class skills . . .)
    Words of wisdom from Gary Gygax:

    From my perspective wanting less in the way of rules constraints comes from being a veteran Game Master who feels confident that more good material comes from imagination and player interaction with the environment than from textbook rules material.
    more words of wisdom:

    • Rashness and foolhardiness are harbingers of death, as is timidity, in such adventure setting.
    • Those that complain about real challenges might be better off playing Candyland with their little sister
    • First and foremost, munchkinism arose as a contemporary of the OD&D game. Nothing in the rules of that or any other version of the game was needed to make it flourish.
    • There is no relationship between 3E and original D&D, or OAD&D for that matter. Different games, style, and spirit.
    • [E]xperience has taught me that everyone has their own gaming preferences, and it is not a matter of "good" or "bad" in all, save in light of one's own preferences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A'koss
    If you go back to my earlier post, the point was that all versions of D&D are very much magic gear oriented. This works great... for D&D. However, loads of magic gear (and even just significant armor) is not indicative in many (though obviously not all) of the mythological and fantasy fiction we grew up with. How does a bare-chested barbarian with no magical healing an AC 6 survive to high levels? Robin Hood & his Merry Men? The Three Musketeers? Lightly armored rangers in LotR? A Hyborian Age jungle fighter? Like I was saying, the game isn't really geared to handle a lot of the settings it drew inspiration from. At some point you could add enough house rules to make it work, but at what point would you be better off with another system?

    Cheers!

    A'koss.
    As a matter of fact...

    Protection has always been a major factor in combat.

    Lightly armored troops in historical battles suffer a lot of casualties.

    An FRPG features heroic personas that are not meant to become casualties of confrontations, so of course they are given armor, magical protections too in order to remain as active characters in a campaign, fight and slay their enemies, armored or not.

    In a system designed to manage another genre, say fantasy science such as that of ERB's Barsoom it is possible to create systems that facilitate unarmored protagonists fighting and surviving hordes of opponents. That was done neatly by Brian Blume's 3d6 combat mechanics om the Warriors of Mars RPG.

    To fault the original A/D&D combat is to entirely miss the whole reason for the game. Fortunately millions of happy players did not make such a mistake

    Cheers,
    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    Lightly armored troops in historical battles suffer a lot of casualties.
    Without question. However, we are discussing fictional heroes who are great without the benefit of armor (or much of it). Heroes that would be considered high level by D&D standards...

    An FRPG features heroic personas that are not meant to become casualties of confrontations, so of course they are given armor, magical protections too in order to remain as active characters in a campaign, fight and slay their enemies, armored or not.
    Which works just fine. What I'm saying though is that style of game is very "D&D" if you will, it has it's own identity separate from the fantasy works that inspired it.

    To fault the original A/D&D combat is to entirely miss the whole reason for the game. Fortunately millions of happy players did not make such a mistake
    I think you're misreading me here just a little. I've never faulted D&D for doing what it does well - D&D. That is to say Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Eberron, and so forth.

    However, if I wanted to run a game in Conan's Hyborian Age, Middle Earth, Mythological Greece, play one of Knights of the Round Table, Robin Hood, Three Musketeers, etc. or something in that vein, you probably wouldn't use D&D as a foundation.

    Cheers!

    A'koss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A'koss
    ...

    ...

    However, if I wanted to run a game in Conan's Hyborian Age, Middle Earth, Mythological Greece, play one of Knights of the Round Table, Robin Hood, Three Musketeers, etc. or something in that vein, you probably wouldn't use D&D as a foundation.

    Cheers!

    A'koss.
    With the exception of Conan's setting, I agree. Even there one would have to scale back the magic, but having armor is usual in REH's tales, save for Conan and a few other of the lesser protagonists, and the Barbarian class covers that pretty handily.

    I don't think it's the armor or the magic that's the main problem in translating the D&D game to such settings but rather the classes themselves and the combat system, for that was devised for balanced hack & slash favoring the PCs in the long term.

    Cheers,
    Gary

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    new reaer of some old books

    Hi, Gary --

    Just thought I'd drop a note to thank you for your ongoing participation in this thread. Now matter how fun you might insist it is (and I believe you ), I'm afraid I'm compelled to consider it a considerate gesture on your part, as you tolerate slavering fanboys and acerbic detractors alike -- at least enough to stick around . Fortunately, after reading all 9(!) of these Q&A threads to date, I find that most people fall pleasantly in the middle.

    They haven't come up lately, but I thought I'd let you know of another respect in which your presence here has paid off in an intangible yet real way -- thanks to the accounts of the Gord the Rogue novels presented here, I've recently ordered them online; all seven books from three different vendors. I never had the sense to pick them up when they were in print in the 80s. Four have arrived already, including the first three (for the thread readers, those are Saga of Old City, Artifact of Evil, and Sea of Death). This is fortunate for me, as I'm taking a transatlantic flight soon and will need some reading material.

    I should get to my questions --

    With the graphic novel adaptation plans a victim of the vicissitudes of "market strategy", do you think there's any chance of seeing the Gord novels republished, perhaps in some sort of omnibus edition?

    If not, does the idea of net-publishing them as PDFs (or, heck, even plain text) appeal to you?

    Thanks for your time and I hope you are having a pleasant Independence Day. Now, I'm off to enjoy some buffalo steaks with the kinfolk.

    (I've got to give props also to the adventuring writeups of Christopher W. Page and Brad Solberg, who, years ago, posted to USENET some tremendously entertaining "old school" accounts of adventures through the Tomb of Horrors and Temple of Elemental Evil. These guys were real curmudgeons, playing "by the book" with only a few house rules, and limited usage even of Unearthed Arcana. Both Page and Solberg credited the Gord novels as being influential upon their gaming style and backstory. Their messages can still be found via Google Groups.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwald
    Hi, Gary --

    Just thought I'd drop a note to thank you for your ongoing participation in this thread. Now matter how fun you might insist it is (and I believe you ), I'm afraid I'm compelled to consider it a considerate gesture on your part, as you tolerate slavering fanboys and acerbic detractors alike -- at least enough to stick around . Fortunately, after reading all 9(!) of these Q&A threads to date, I find that most people fall pleasantly in the middle.
    Hail Redwald, and rest assured I am pleased and honored to be here exchanging comments and quips. As I've just finished making 10 deviled eggs to take to a BBQ to be held later today regardless of the drizzling skies here in Lake Geneva, I have a few moments to respond to your post. then O plan to have a cigarillo and read on the front porch...such a demanding day

    They haven't come up lately, but I thought I'd let you know of another respect in which your presence here has paid off in an intangible yet real way -- thanks to the accounts of the Gord the Rogue novels presented here, I've recently ordered them online; all seven books from three different vendors. I never had the sense to pick them up when they were in print in the 80s. Four have arrived already, including the first three (for the thread readers, those are Saga of Old City, Artifact of Evil, and Sea of Death). This is fortunate for me, as I'm taking a transatlantic flight soon and will need some reading material.
    As I read through the "Judge Dee" mysteries in the spring, I am now working on the "Sharpe's" Napoleonic Era historical novels. When those are finished I plan to re-read some of my favorite Vance yarns again, and more "Nero Wolfe." As i work so much with fantasy, it is good to have a change of genre

    The book to read after Artifact of Evil is Night Arrant, then read City of Hawks before Sea of Death, and i hope you enjoy the read. the tales are sheer adventure with little or any message anywhere therein

    I should get to my questions --

    With the graphic novel adaptation plans a victim of the vicissitudes of "market strategy", do you think there's any chance of seeing the Gord novels republished, perhaps in some sort of omnibus edition?
    It is likely that Troll Lord Games will begin publishing hardback versions of the seven "Gord" books beginning in the last part of this year.

    If not, does the idea of net-publishing them as PDFs (or, heck, even plain text) appeal to you?
    That isn't worth the time and effort...

    [QUOTE]Thanks for your time and I hope you are having a pleasant Independence Day. Now, I'm off to enjoy some buffalo steaks with the kinfolk. [QUOTE]
    I have some elk steaks that are pending the grill on a day that son Alex isn't working.

    (I've got to give props also to the adventuring writeups of Christopher W. Page and Brad Solberg, who, years ago, posted to USENET some tremendously entertaining "old school" accounts of adventures through the Tomb of Horrors and Temple of Elemental Evil. These guys were real curmudgeons, playing "by the book" with only a few house rules, and limited usage even of Unearthed Arcana. Both Page and Solberg credited the Gord novels as being influential upon their gaming style and backstory. Their messages can still be found via Google Groups.)
    Perhaps one day when I am seeking some diversion I'll root up the URL, as you make their accounts sound interesting to a chap such as I

    Cheers,
    Gary

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    Hi Gary,

    I have read the Sharpe books, and was suitably impressed with Cornwell's latest offering "The Last Kingdom" set in era of Alfred's defense of Wessex...gripping stuff. You may have commented previously on Pratchett - I find Discworld great for comic relief - does it make your reading list? On the other end of the scale I enjoyed the Memory, Sorrow & Thorn trillogy from Williams for its storytelling.

    Excuse the rambling, all too easy with adecent malt whisky.

    Good Health
    John

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