D1-3 Descent/Kuo-Toa/Drow

Drow Male Contingent (EL 12)

In the meantime, here’s a proof-of-concept test of using our generic progressions: Encounter Area D-3, the Drow Male Contingent. It only took about ten minutes to convert this over.

Creatures: There are 10 male troops to the southwest, two of whom are on guard duty and will report the presence of any creature moving along the passage. With these troops are two leaders, a unit commander, and the commander’s liaison—a noble named Jeggred, of House Aleval.


The only real wrinkle in converting this encounter is that Jeggred is listed in the original text as having a rope of entanglement. A rope has a 3e value of 21,000 gp, making it worth more than his entire gear allotment of 16,000 gp! Ordinarily, I would reduce his other gear so as to substitute in a cool item from the original text. Another option would be to just give him the item, and then try to up his Challenge Rating to account for better equipment. But–even though I think a rope of entanglement is a pretty nifty item—I really wonder how much chance Jeggred would have to actually use this item. You figure he’s got something like 4-6 rounds, tops, to do things, and he’s probably better off tossing spells than messing with the rope. So I’ve chosen, in this instance, to just ignore this item altogether. As always, YMMV.

Garnfellow, this is absolutely fantastic stuff. Thanks for the work on it.

Garnfellow said:

But, on the other hand, high level wizards and liches had far fewer hit points and resources in 1st edition. Was Asberdies intended to be a very, very tough encounter that could, with much luck and intelligent play, be defeated?

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This is my view. It was ages ago so my memory of it is limited, but I was in a group of about 8 level 9 PCs who managed to defeat a L18 lich. The 1E high level spells weren't tremendously powerful (a 20d6 fireball was nearly as bad as a meteor storm). The lich could take out a PC per round with its no-save spells. A prepared party of 8 PCs would probably have a decent chance if they could get the fighters close and hack at it.

The encounter is somewhat strange anyway. From memory, Asberdies doesn't have any constructs or minions. He's not hidden in the middle of a huge trap-filled maze. I think he's lonely and wants a chance to talk.

Garnfellow said:

In which case one might convert him as, say, a lich 13th-level wizard, which would be a CR 17 encounter. Still extremely deadly, but at least possible. It’s something to think about.

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This raises a fundamental problem of the conversion of D1-3 series itself. If the players run through G1-3 first, and G3 is converted "as is", a group of PCs starting D1 will almost certainly be level 14-15. They would walk over a 13th level wizard lich (as well as everything else in the module).

Final note regarding the whip - remember the tentacle rods. What weapon proficiency is needed to use them? Whip would be a reasonable choice. Although the tentacle rods are probably more like a flail than a whip.

-RedShirt

RedShirtNo5 said:

Garnfellow, this is absolutely fantastic stuff. Thanks for the work on it.

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Glad you like it! Now I need to get back into the groove.

RedShirtNo5 said:

The [Asberdies] encounter is somewhat strange anyway. From memory, Asberdies doesn't have any constructs or minions. He's not hidden in the middle of a huge trap-filled maze. I think he's lonely and wants a chance to talk.

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It really is a bizarre encounter -- probably why so many people seem to remember it. What the heck is this lich doing in the middle of the troglodyte warrens? I assume some TSR or WotC deisgner must have done an update on this guy in the last 20 years, probably snuck into a supermodule or Dungeon adventure.

It also suggests another way to convert him. Maybe the encounter was intended to be [or works best as] a pure role-playing opportunity. If the PCs try to talk with Asberdies, maybe he can provide helpful information about the drow, or Lolth. In which case, you could convert him as a straight up 20th level wizard.

RedShirtNo5 said:

This raises a fundamental problem of the conversion of D1-3 series itself. If the players run through G1-3 first, and G3 is converted "as is", a group of PCs starting D1 will almost certainly be level 14-15. They would walk over a 13th level wizard lich (as well as everything else in the module).

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You are absolutely right. My solution is a bit drastic: when I run the G sequence, I'm going to use stripped down versions of 3e giants, as suggested by Daniel Collins (http://superdan.net.home.comcast.net/dndmisc/1st_ed_giants.html). Daniel also did the excellent port of the G series that is already in the Conversion library.

I think there are a lot of good reasons for scaling back giants, and retro-continuity is probably the least important. My philosophy, in short, is this: in 2e, monsters couldn't take classes and had no ability scores. The only way to make tougher giants was to give them more HD. In 3e, there's no need: scale back those HD, and give 'em plenty of room to take base classes and prestige classes without bumping up against epic levels. Or to put it another way: a 14 HD frost giant is cool, but a 10 HD frost giant with 4 levels of Barbarian is much, much cooler.

Hopefully, this will mean that once the PCs have completed the G sequence they will be in the 11-13th level range. That's the plan, anyway.

RedShirtNo5 said:

Final note regarding the whip - remember the tentacle rods. What weapon proficiency is needed to use them? Whip would be a reasonable choice. Although the tentacle rods are probably more like a flail than a whip.

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The way the lesser tentacle rod is written up in a recent Dungeon adventure, the user activates the rod, and the tentacles have their own Base Attack Bonus -- the user doesn't use their own to hit bonus, so I guess they wouldn't need a weapon proficiency.

Garnfellow said:

slugs, and trappers.

Looking ahead, the single biggest problem in converting all of D1-2-3 is probably resolving what the heck to do with the lich Asberdies in the troglodyte warrens. A 3e lich 20th-level wizard is epic territory: CR 24, so far beyond the capabilities of the PCs as to be ridiculous. The question to be answered is, what is the purpose of this encounter? The old school modules occasionally featured super-powerful monsters that Players Were Not Meant to F$#@% With. I think their sole purpose was to screw foolhardy players. Ever had a PC become lunch to the owlbear from B2, The Keep on the Borderlands?

If this is the purpose of the lich encounter, then you could just convert him over, level for level, and say a prayer for your players. Personally, I wouldn’t bother: I’d either ignore the lich altogether or treat him like I do godlike beings: no stats needed. Basically, whatever they want to do, they do.

But, on the other hand, high level wizards and liches had far fewer hit points and resources in 1st edition. Was Asberdies intended to be a very, very tough encounter that could, with much luck and intelligent play, be defeated? In which case one might convert him as, say, a lich 13th-level wizard, which would be a CR 17 encounter. Still extremely deadly, but at least possible. It’s something to think about.

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I think your second interpretation is likely since as has been noted, the lich is solitary and has no guardians or minions. In AD&D, superior numbers could win the day, and when you add up the total party level of the suggested ranges (8-12 characters of levels 10-14) it is likely that the solitary lich, although a 20th level MU, was not intented as a auto TPK when encountered.

More thoughts on Asberdies

On a hunch I checked out the Greytalk archives to see what ideas had been kicked around there on Asberdies. Sure enough, there were a couple of good threads. The odd, seemingly random placement of this super-powerful lich in the Underdark, with so few additional details, clearly captured many readers' imaginations.

The fabulous treasure in his lair -- a crown, orb, and scepter -- suggests to many that he once a king. His placement in the middle of the underworld, seemingly random, suggests he may have lost his faculties, which by extension leads many people to view him as a semi-tragic figure. Some of the interesting theories that were kicked around include the following:

• He was human mage who studied in the Vault of the Drow before becoming a lich
• He is a drow lich, perhaps in league with Eclavdra.
• He was once a cruel tyrant in the Yeomanry, later overthrown by a rebellion and forced to flee into the Underdark where he became a lich.
• He was a Suloise wizard who escaped the Destruction by fleeing into the depths of the Hellfurnaces. Maybe he escaped with a dragon orb, but was driven mad after losing the orb in a battle with a shadow dragon. Or maybe he was driven mad by paranoia, solitude, or having seen too many horrors in the Destruction.
• He was once a mighty hero who fell into corruption and then fled into the depths in shame. (This theory is so detailed a link to the whole post is worthwhile.)
• He is a lich on the verge of demi-lichdom, who has withdrawn almost completely from the world, and now lives on in a dream-like twilight, having forgotten most of his past and is now only barely aware of his surroundings

Personally, I'd just as soon keep as many details of his past wide open in the spirit of D1. I think it's safe to posit only that he was once a king or mighty ruler, but overthrown or usurped and forced to flee into the deep underworld. Maybe he was such a terrible tyrant he had to go to such extreme lengths to escape his enemies. In any case, this all happened so long ago that no one on the surface world even remembers his name now.

All of this is pushing me toward converting him as a full-on 20th-level wizard, but one so detached from reality as to be nearly harmless, unless the PCs are so foolish as to try and steal his treasure or harm him, in which case his survival instincts kick in and he lay down a ferocious bit of lichy asskicking.

This would largely be an EXTREMELY creepy, weird side-trek and chance for good role-playing. You have this undead horror, shuffling around in the dark, sometimes going completely comatose as his attention wanders to other planes, while at other times he is chatting away merrily with his many magic mouths, thinking they are real people and that he is still very much alive and back in his old kingdom, holding court. If the PCs are careful and clever, he might show them some hospitality, generously offering them bowls filled with dust and goblets of cobwebs. But he is extremely nutty and paranoid, and if the PCs should say the wrong thing . . . and given how nutty he is, the wrong thing could be just about anything . . . his pathological paranoia kicks in, and he sees them as his ancient enemies, or servants of those enemies. In which case, run away!

I think you have it perfectly! In fact, you ought to insert your musing on the topic (along with possible backgrounds) into the conversion for DMs to use.

Gentlegamer said:

I think you have it perfectly! In fact, you ought to insert your musing on the topic (along with possible backgrounds) into the conversion for DMs to use.

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Many thanks to RedShirtNo5 for sending me down this path. This is exactly why collobatorative efforts can be so much better than solo projects.

Drow Flash Globes

While I'm working on the female cleric progressions, it might be worthwhile to look at the next encounter in D1, which is a female drow contingent. Most of this encounter is straightforward to convert, except for a couple of weird items. One is a cloaker cloak, and the other is a drow flash globe. I'll tackle the globe first; here's the original description:


The basic item is similar to a standard thunderstone, so I started with that description. The lighting effect is very similar to how faerie fire used to work, so taking that cue I've used the 3e faerie fire mechanics. Here’s a draft product:


I admittedly have no idea about the cost for items like this. I just took a thunderstone and multiplied by 10. Has this item appeared in any WotC 3e product?

One More Thought on Asberdies

This combines a couple of ideas I picked up from the old Greytalk threads. If this encounter is to be a role-playing one then it should have a nice, proper build up to make it all the more memorable. I could imagine that Asberdies spends most of his time now in his weird twilight consciousness. But the sight of an obviously monstrous creature (like a bugbear, gargoyle, troll, or troglodyte) is enough to jar him back to reality long enough to mercilessly zap the unfortunate critter into oblivion.

Accordingly, every single blessed intelligent monster in the warrens knows ALL about Asberdies (whom they call the "Scorned King," though they don't know why) and is scared to death of ever meeting him. Any prisoner captured in the area will gladly tell his captors all about the horrible, terrible, all-powerful Scorned King, and everone will have a story or two about how their neighbor's cousin's brother-in-monster was disintigrated by this awful terror.

So by the time the PCs meet him, they should be well nigh frightened out of their wits. (Of course, not being obviously monstrous in appearance, the PCs will not immediately set Asberdies off. But they won't know that, will they?)

Thanks for posting this stuff.

As an aside the drow tenacle rods are in the Arms and Equipment guide.

Mike