So, you like puzzles? Here's one...

Thanee · May 1, 2005

From our last session. We needed some hints by the DM to actually solve it (listed below in spoilers), let's see if you can do it without them!

Post solutions or spoiler-questions in SPOILER tags only!

The puzzle has two parts... both are written in ancient dwarven runes (the symbols), only some of those could be identified (the letters). The first part was on a rune-covered archway, leading into a small cavern. The second part was found on a hidden door inside that cavern.

Basics: The language used herein is "english" (ours was in german, but I redesigned it to work in english), just the symbolic alphabet is not (we had prettier symbols, looking like dwarven runes). The symbols represent letters, which together form english words (in the first part at least). You need to find out, which symbol stands for which letter in the first part, of course, to solve the second part (which, obviously enough, provides the 'command' to open the door), but the first part also contains the key how to solve the second part (it's not merely a help to translate the symbols).

First part:

Code:

$I""$E *OU#E
EA"# "*E /OU#E
O~E\# "*E ?OO&
#EE\ !E=O&E

Second part:

Code:

/ E # A $ O U ?
I = I & # " ? )
" E & # ~ E A A
+ * O O ~ E : &
I " O O " \ " (
# = ? E * " * E
? O E / A \ E \
\ A + I # ? O §

If you need help:

1st hint: (just a very small hint)

Question: Who eats whom?

2nd hint: (big hint)

The mouse eats the house; the 'little house' is a snail-shell ('snail-house' in a word-by-word translation from german).

3rd hint: (big hint, 2nd part (further explains the 2nd hint))

'Seen before' refers to the second part... you must imagine the 'snail-house' overlaid over the second part.

4th hint: (the missing symbols in second part, those that are not also in the first part)

G=§, K=:, V=(, W=), X=+

Note: I've changed the order, the 4th hint was our first, but it might not be necessary, if you have the more important 2nd hint; you can read the 4th hint before the 2nd (or 3rd) hint, if you think that you can figure it out that way, it will allow you to completely translate the symbols in the second part. The 2nd hint was the one we needed, as we really did not think about that (it's not completely intuitive; also there's a word-play in the first part, which does not exactly translate into english, but it should be possible to get the conclusion even without that, however, I've provided that part (the word-play) in the 2nd hint as well). After that hint, it was completely easy to solve for us (solution was then derived within seconds); the preparation work (symbol translation) was done already by that time, of course.

Have fun!

Bye
Thanee

Rystil Arden · May 1, 2005

Part 1 of my musings:

[SBLOCK]
Well the first part says something like "Little house eats the mouse, opens the door seen before[/SBLOCK]

Part 2 of my musings:

[SBLOCK]
The next one is something like this (I replaced the last symbol with a ^ so it would be easier to type.

M E S A L O U D
I F I R S T D )
T E R S P E A A
+ H O O P E : R
I T O O T N T (
S F D E H T H E
D O E M A N E N
N A + I S D O ^

That looks like DWARVEN in the last column, so I'm guessing the parentheses stand for W and V, so

M E S A L O U D
I F I R S T D W
T E R S P E A A
+ H O O P E : R
I T O O T N T V
S F D E H T H E
D O E M A N E N
N A + I S D O ^

[/SBLOCK]

Part 3:

[SBLOCK]

Looks like a spiral to me. I still don't understand how the first part even helps, but:

Dwarven ^od si+andsi+ times aloud a: the name of the first een the doors peen toop
[/SBLOCK]

Part 4:

[SBLOCK]

Hmmm....

Dwarven god six and six times aloud a: the name of the first een the doors peen toop

That's not quite right. Have to rethink this I guess...but it probably involves saying a dwarven god's name twelve times, so I'd just do that at this point

[/SBLOCK]

Answer (Methinketh)
[SBLOCK]
OK, how bout going inside out:

To open the door, speak the name of the first dwarven god, six and six times aloud.

Yay, do I win? Wonder what the hints were and/or what the heck the mouse and the house meant.

[/SBLOCK]

Thanee · May 1, 2005

Rystil: (to others: this contains a few big spoilers!)

[sblock]
1st part is correct. 2nd part looks good, too.

3rd part is close.

I still don't understand how the first part even helps

LOL. That was our problem exactly and where we spent the most time on.
It's explained in the 2nd and 3rd hint.

The 1st hint only gives a really small hint to figure out the first part's meaning.

Your basic idea (spiral) in the 3rd part is what the 2nd and 3rd hint aim for.

You can probably read the the first three hints to find out what the first part means...
If you want to try it yourself, just read the 1st hint.

Anyways... it's really not hard, once you got the basic idea (which you already have, the spiral).

Noone in our group could "see" the spiral (it might have been more difficult, tho, because german words are usually longer and thus turn more corners

) in the 2nd part.

With that idea you really should be able to find the solution.

Maybe try the 4th hint to fill out the missing symbols and then play around with your basic idea a bit.

---> EDIT:

Ah, now with 4th and 5th musing...

Yes, it's the correct phrase.

Read the hints, maybe you can see what the first part was meant to provide.
[/sblock]

Bye
Thanee

Rystil Arden · May 1, 2005

Thanee said:
Rhystil: (to others: this contains a few big spoilers!)

[sblock]
1st part is correct. 2nd part looks good, too.

3rd part is close.

LOL. That was our problem exactly and where we spent the most time on.
It's explained in the 2nd and 3rd hint.

The 1st hint only gives a really small hint to figure out the first part's meaning.

Your basic idea (spiral) in the 3rd part is what the 2nd and 3rd hint aim for.
You can probably read the the first three hints to find out what the first part means...
If you want to try it yourself, just read the 1st hint.

Anyways... it's really not hard, once you got the basic idea (which you already have, the spiral).

Noone in our group could "see" the spiral (it might have been more difficult, tho, because german words are usually longer and thus turn more corners ) in the 2nd part.

With that idea you really should be able to find the solution.

Maybe try the 4th hint to fill out the missing symbols and then play around with your basic idea a bit.

---> EDIT:

Ah, now with 4th and 5th musing...

Yes, it's the correct phrase.

Read the hints, maybe you can see what the first part was meant to provide.
[/sblock]

Bye
Thanee

[SBLOCK]
Yeah, I get it now that I already have the answer, but I think there's no way that the clue about mouse and house would lead anybody to that path...

It as probably much easier for me because you gave me all those lovely "THE"s in the first part, whereas in German, you'd have to divide your attention between "DIE" "DAS" and "DER" . Also, I can imagine "Nibelungen" or whatever the "DWARVEN" equivalent might not have stuck out like the English did to me in the last column, as I attempted to read it downwards.

What brought me to the spiral conclusion was seeing the words 'First' and 'Aloud' (Actually the 'D' in the aloud helped me accidentally notice "Dwarven" because I was actually using the wrong 'D'

to read it up to down (that's what got me spiraling in the wrong direction too) going left to right and Door going down to up...
[/SBLOCK]

Thanee · May 1, 2005

Rystil:

[sblock]Yep, the complete words make it a bit easier to read, but it's not that difficult, anyways; plus the handy "aloud"-D, which could probably be avoided with another way to write the text, so the last word does not end with a D. But that's ok, it's not meant to be supertough.

And the snail-shell part is really next to impossible to figure out... so it's probably ok, that there is a decent enough way to find the solution without that.

[/sblock]

Bye
Thanee

Abraxas · May 1, 2005

OK, got the first part pretty quickly, simple substitution.

Spoiler:
[SBLOCK]LITTLE HOUSE EATS THE MOUSE OPENS THE DOOR SEEN BEFORE[/SBLOCK]

The second part was more or less just luck
[SBLOCK]I just happened to notice the words spiraling around (actually noticed aloud first and went backwards) "To open the door speak the name of the first dwarven god six and six times aloud" then checked your clues - the snail reference is the kicker[/SBLOCK]

Thanee · May 1, 2005

Abraxas said:
The second part was more or less just luck

Heh. Yep, it's not really difficult, once you get the right idea (which the first part is meant to help with

). The translation (and reorganisation) to english also made it a bit easier to find the solution, even if you don't get the meaning of the first part, which is probably almost impossible, anyways.

Bye
Thanee