Player's build is to strong?

That many PRCs is just utterly disgusting. If a player came to me with a build like that I'd probably laugh. There can be no possible justification for a PC (or NPC) starting out with that many different PRCs.

In my current game, every player is allowed one rule from a builder book.

So that pretty much limits each character to one PRC (or one builder book class or one builder book feat, etc.).

jrients said:

I'd allow something like that, but the player would be on the top of my hitlist.

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cmanos said:

I'd also seriously consider saying PrC's are not immune to multiclass XP penalties. If he's gonna try and pull a stunt like that, I'd pull out Rule 0 and say thats the way it's gonna be.

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Aren't these quotes just a bit Player vs. DM?

Cmanos, would you really say to a player, "Oh, yeah, if you are going to try that I'm just gonna change the rules on you?" Would you appreciate that as a player?

Jrients, do you really have a hitlist that you put "problem" players on? Wouldn't it be better to talk about your misgivings rationally and before game, rather than punishing the player for having the audicity to try and make a character just a smidge more powerful?

As DM I can create far more (so called) cheese as to make this look like a straight bard build. (Players have no problem with trolls, let's slap the half-fiend template on them. Now try fireballing your way through trolls. Bwahahahahaha. I know, I know, nilbogs with vicious swords. That'll teach those players not to mess with me.)

Personally, I see absolutely no reason to disallow the character. The DMG and other books suggest (or should suggest) changing prereqs on PrCs if they fit a concept. The Evasion ability is close enough. I see no problem with getting visions from gods one despises.

Besides, the character is still only 3rd level. Will this build survive to high level? If he manages to get the sub-optimal druid/bard up in the 10s level, he deserves to gain power. People complain that high level play is dominated by magic items anyway, so I don't see why creating a character less dependent on those items should be seen as being bad. Some people have to get beyond thinking min/maxing is bad. It shows he's interested enough in the game to think about his characters future. If only every player were that interested.

Endur said:

In my current game, every player is allowed one rule from a builder book.

So that pretty much limits each character to one PRC (or one builder book class or one builder book feat, etc.).

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Good idea to keep the balance in your campaign, after all thing can get really ugly when you mix too much source of information.

cmanos said:

"You've been through 7 different professions, none of which you are any good at and now you want to join the Fochluran college? Come back when you have shown a little morededication to any ONE field of study."

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Well, the Fochluran college does require Druidic as a language, bardic music, evasion, and something else I can't remember (martial weapon proficiency?). Some would argue that's exactly the type of person they're looking for.

And 1st Level Arcane and Divine spells
And a whole load of skill requriements including Perform at 13...


Brd 2 / Rge 2/ Druid 1 are the only levels you pretty much have to take (or swap out Brd2 for Brd 1/Wizor or Sor 1) ; but you still can't get in there before 10th level and will have to take another 5 levels in something.

I wouldn't allow it because it uses the Ur-Priest. The mechanics of that class annoy me to no end.

Other than the dragonslayer bit, it seems fine otherwise. To get into the lyrist class you have to be a rogue/druid/bard anyway, after all. Its a class that requires a lot of number crunching to enter.

Personally the easiest answer is just say no to whichever PrC you don't want in your campaign. You'll find that by kicking out a few of the "Usual Suspects" (Ur Priest, Dweomercheater, etc) most of the "abusive" builds vanish pretty quick.

The thing is, he lacks a lot of character power in the early levels (Bard, with less bardic ability due to the Druid and Divine Oracle levels) and is hamstrung into many of his feat choices. Heck, even Ur-Priest doesn't start getting strong until you get the FL levels.

But I think the problem here is the player - you say his characters are generally kind of weak. Well, he's obviously tried to rectify that; but just because you'll eventually have +16 BAB and 9th level Arcane/Divine casting doesn't automatically make your character effective. You still need to know what to do with it. Also, at 3rd level, if he tried to play this build, I'd think he would be very frustrated. He'll probably be the weakest member of the party, which doesn't encourage participation (seriously, I'd think he'd either sit in the back and hide until 13th character level or so, or die to a few lucky hits). That won't help anyone.

There are better ways to play a strong, espeically at low levels. What has this player played as in the past? If he is comfortable with magic, for instance, I would recommend the Cleric class, looking at your current party. It's simple, mechanically strong, and helps the party through all levels. What I actually do for my fellow players is ask them what kind of character they wish to play, and help them with their builds so that they won't be disappointed; perhaps a similar session with this player could help him out there.

If a player asked me if he could play the above character, I'd generally allow it if we're starting at low levels. I doubt that he would survive or the party would put up with him until he started contributing.

I have a simple rule regarding prestige classes: finish what you start.