Pounce.

Ysgarran

Registered User

• May 18, 2002

• #1

Just because a cat has 'pounce' that doesn't allow the cat to make it 'full attack' in the surprise round. Correct?

Example:
Cat stalks a commoner (remember that thread?).

Cat gets within 20' of the commoner without the commoner seeing him.

Cat attacks with surprise and the commoner flat-footed.

Cat makes its full move but can only make one attack because it can't take a 'full attack' during the surprise round.

Commoner wins initiative in the next round and kills cat.


Just seems to limit the usefullness of the pounce ability.

thanks,
Ysgarran.

Edit: OK, a normal house cat doesn't get the pounce ability but for the argument, lets just say it does get the pounce ability.

 

Last edited: May 18, 2002

log in or register to remove this ad

M

Mahali

Explorer

• May 18, 2002

• #2

Pounce: If a lion leaps upon a foe during the first round of combat, it can make a full attack even if it has already taken a move action.

Click to expand...

I would say it gets a full round of attack. The surprise round is still the first round of combat. It does not say the first "regular" or "normal" round of combat.

The effect is the same in the end.

 

Ysgarran

Registered User

• May 18, 2002

• #3

I guess the way to look at it is that 'pounce' is almost like a 'move equivalent' action.

Ysgarran.

 

Dr. Zoom

First Post

• May 18, 2002

• #4

Isn't the surprise round a partial action?

 

kreynolds

First Post

• May 18, 2002

• #5

Dr. Zoom said:

Isn't the surprise round a partial action?

Click to expand...

Yup. Pounce doesn't work during the surprise round. There isn't enough time.

 

dcollins

Explorer

• May 18, 2002

• #6

Dr. Zoom said:

Isn't the surprise round a partial action?

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the partial-action surprise round is actually a rules variant (DMG p. 61).

Under the base core rules, the cat can catch a flat-footed target in the first round of combat, leap on it, and still get to take a full attack action (per the pounce ability).

Only under the variant rule is that first round limited to partial-actions, and in that case yes, the full attack action is barred to the cat (for reasons other than the pounce functionality).

 

kreynolds

First Post

• May 19, 2002

• #7

dcollins said:

Keep in mind that the partial-action surprise round is actually a rules variant (DMG p. 61).

Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm not really a big fan of the Surprise round variant either. It's nowhere near as tense as when an Archer gets the jump on you, fires a single shot into your face, wins initiative, and fires 4 or 5 more shots into your face.

 

noretoc

First Post

• May 19, 2002

• #8

Sorry, not true. Page 120 of the PHB clearly states what constitutes surprise and what you can do in the surprise round. Nothing there that says anything about it being an variant rule.

DMG pg 60 says that even if both combatants are aware of eachother, if the DM wishes he may run the first round of combat as a surprise round.

 

kreynolds

First Post

• May 19, 2002

• #9

noretoc said:

Sorry, not true.

Click to expand...

And your point? Read the DMG pg. 61. By the way, you do know that DMs run the game and not players, right?

 

Shin Okada

Explorer

• May 19, 2002

• #10

Surprise Round = Partial Action only .... core rule.
The 1st round of combat is always a surprise round even if both side aware of each other .... variant rule on DMG P.61.

Now, onto original topic. Whether cats can pounce at the surprise round. IMHO the creator of this rule is not considering about surprise round. And the wordings are not clear. So the following is just my opinion.

If there is no surprise round, pounce ability allow a cat to move and make a full attack. This is like making a full attack into a standard action. So treat it just like it. I mean, partial action = standard action - move. So, with pounce ability, (move + full attack) - move = full attack is a partial action. So a cat can step 5 ft. and make a full attack in a surprise round. Or, he can just make a partial charge as usual. How about this?