A question concerning skills...

Fenrik · May 30, 2005

Suppose a 7th level fighter has 10 ranks in Hide, which translates to 5 points since it is a cross class skill. If he takes on a level in Blackguard for his 8th level, which would make Hide a class skill, does he get his ranks back or are they lost (does his Hide skill become 10+Dex+misc or does it stay 5+Dex+misc, assuming he puts no more ranks into Hide upon leveling)?

Staffan · May 30, 2005

They're lost. You always buy skills as whatever class you're leveling up in at the time. If your blackguard later takes another fighter level, he'd have to pay 2 SP for each rank of Hide then too.

Aesmael · May 31, 2005

I believe they are lost (unless he can find someone to manifest Psychic Reformation on him). If he takes another level of fighter Hide is still a cross-class skill, alas.

Fenrik · May 31, 2005

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me guys, much appreciated.

Saeviomagy · May 31, 2005

Fenrik said:
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me guys, much appreciated.

Also - he has 10 POINTS in the skill which translates to 5 RANKS. Not the other way around.

It's an important distinction when it comes to joining prestige classes and the like.

Kobold Stew · May 31, 2005

The level in Blackguard does affect future purchases of the skill, however, for it changes the charactrer's maximum level in the skill. Even if he never takes another level of blackguard (and, let's say, he goes back to fighter) he can max out his hide skill (character level +3), though it will contrinue to cost him at 2 points/rank.

This can be significant for some builds, and access to other PCs.

Kae'Yoss · May 31, 2005

Aesmael said:
I believe they are lost (unless he can find someone to manifest Psychic Reformation on him)

Not even then, since he wasn't blackguard when he took these skill ranks. He might exchange his 3 ranks in Spot for 3 ranks in Listen or something, but he cannot use PsyRef to make an illegal build.

Saeviomagy · Jun 1, 2005

Kae'Yoss said:
Not even then, since he wasn't blackguard when he took these skill ranks. He might exchange his 3 ranks in Spot for 3 ranks in Listen or something, but he cannot use PsyRef to make an illegal build.

But when he's done, it's not an illegal build, and that's pretty much all that matters...

Kae'Yoss · Jun 1, 2005

Saeviomagy said:
But when he's done, it's not an illegal build, and that's pretty much all that matters...

From the SRD

The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills.

I interpret that as you must spend those skills with the same rules you had when your took that level. So you're reselecting your fighter 3 skills, and were fighter 3 at that time. You must reselect those skills with that in mind.