Scent-Aid Or alternate rules for Scent Ability.

Vraille Darkfang · Jun 12, 2005

Ok,

I let a player play a Bugbear in my new game. I let him have the Scent Feat (after all its a +1 level modifier in Savage Species). I thought no big deal. +1 ain't that bad. Figured he have to make a skill check, abilty check, some sort of roll.

Nope.

Scent SHOULD read: This character can AUTOMATICALLY DETECT anything with a pulse within X feet. Move Silent (COMPLETLY negates), Hide (COMPLELTY NEGATES), Search (if a smell, of anything, is involved, COMPLELTY negates.

Basically, he's got a type of True Seeing at the cost of +1 level adjustment & a Feat. Not bad.

I don't want to take away his character's Scent ability, I just want to make it less than AUTOMATICALLY succeeds. I've already had a bunch of encounters he SHOULD have completly detected, but each time a had a good, logical reason why his scent feat didn't help him (even though rules wise, he should have nailed it).

Scent is broken. I know that know. And the Rogues in my game know that too, as EVERY monster with scent can now track their Hide/Move Silent 40+ butts down, even if it has -3 to Spot.

So, is there any new Scent rules WotC has come out with? Dragon Magazine maybe?

How do handle Scent? I want it to resemble the 3.5 D&D system and require an ACTUAL ROLL to determine success/failure (ideally somthing that could scale with level like skills do).

So, how do you handle Scent in your game?

Richards · Jun 12, 2005

So, how do you handle Scent in your game?

Air freshener usually does the trick.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Johnathan

Jeff Wilder · Jun 12, 2005

I handle it per RAW. I don't like the way it's done, but I don't think it's broken. (I basically think Perception should be a skill with subskills, like Knowledge or Perform.)

Scent only detects the presence of someone within 30 feet ... it takes a move action to get a direction. Even if Scent pinpoints a creature (within 5 feet), the creature still has total concealment relative to the Scenter.

Vraille Darkfang · Jun 12, 2005

Jeff Wilder said:
Scent only detects the presence of someone within 30 feet ... it takes a move action to get a direction. Even if Scent pinpoints a creature (within 5 feet), the creature still has total concealment relative to the Scenter.

Yeah, but....

When your trying to build up suspense or surprise the party, having the half-orc go "Wait, I smell something within 30'" sort of really kills a lot of potential encounters.

Not to mention makes those characters who actually PUT points in Spot & Listen feel sort of cheated.

Plus, it just says he smells it. Doesn't say how he knows what 'IT' is. How much can he smell? Can he tell the difference between an orc & an ogre, how about a Dragon & a Wyvern? The rules are clearly not made for PC's to ever, EVER take the feat. Sure the PHB says characters can take it with DM's permission. but they leave out the note: "Hey DM, we have NEVER playtested this out with ACTUAL Player Characters using it, so your just going to have to make it up as you go along).

For instance, PC's come across dead bodies (with some being undead lying in wait). How does the Bugbear use his Scent to distinguish between the scent of the Dead vs the Undead?

No roll, you either know or know not. I mean a Ghoul doesn't smell like a Nymph (at least I assume not). Yet by the RAW, all the Bugbear knows is 'somthing's within 30' Could be a Fire Elemental, Could be a Black Dragon, Could be an Outhouse Golem, Could be a Vanilla Faerie, they apparently ALL SMELL EXACTLY THE SAME.

I need a way to let the Bugbear attempt to Analyze the smells he detects. That doesn't exist. I'm taking advice here, as I clearly need to make up my own system, or tell the bugbear, he had one hell of a sinus infection & his honker doesn't work so good anymore (which is unfair to him).

Whizbang Dustyboots · Jun 12, 2005

Since you're dealing with more Scent issues than most campaigns will, you need to add the spells WotC would have if most campaigns had these issues:

* Unscented - Level 2 arcane spell based directly off invisiblity.
* Improved Unscented - Level X (I forget this second) spell directly based off improved invisiblity.

Remember that most people won't bother with these spells unless they think there's a reason to use them. And you might want to just add the unscented trait to improved invisiblity if it's not already in there.

Also create an alchemy mixture that disguises scent (probably several different flavors, based on the environment). Using that, I'd give a +10 to Survival checks to avoid being found with it. I'd also make it a relatively high Survival check (requiring a minute of work) to set a Wisdom check to be found using it.

I'd also make it a straight Wisdom check to differentiate between living creatures and things that smell just like it. I'd assume that nymphs smell like flowers, for instance, so that one laying prone in a field of them, either sleeping, getting it on or even in ambush, wouldn't be automatically spotted. And, of course, the whole zombie thing. I'd also use common sense and say that certain things (air elementals, skeletons, stone golems) can't be smelled at all.

Tonguez · Jun 12, 2005

I just use the Listen skill (and call it Perception) - Percetion can apply to Hearing, Smell (and technically even Touch) and does whatever Listen can (modified as appropriate)

apesamongus · Jun 12, 2005

Vraille Darkfang said:
When your trying to build up suspense or surprise the party, having the half-orc go "Wait, I smell something within 30'" sort of really kills a lot of potential encounters.

Not to mention makes those characters who actually PUT points in Spot & Listen feel sort of cheated.

Well, spot and listen work out a lot further than 30'. And, seriously, if it's within 30' it's beyond suspense building time - it's time to roll initiative.

General Barron · Jun 14, 2005

Easy fix: just add a new skill called "Scent", which can only be used if you have the scent feat. So for all of those very valid complaints you have about the feat, you now have a skill that can make checks with. I'd use the following guidelines: it should have no penalties up to the range restrictions given in the MM (beyond which it could get a penalty of like -5 / 10' or something similar); and it should be easier to smell a hidden person/item than it is to spot or hear it (provided it is within range).

If you are like me, and you think it is retarded to have spot & listen as separate skills (and have thus combined them into one 'perception' skill), then just make the character/monster use his perception skill for smell checks.

Storyteller01 · Jun 14, 2005

Even those without the Scent ability can work on ways to block it (everyone seems to have a guard dog, and deer hunters use scent block/scent decoys at an alarming rate).

If the enemy is tracking the party, and know the bugbear is part of it (and intelligent enough to think 'animal = hieghtened senses of some sort'), they might have brought scent block or herded stronger smelling animals into the area (Anyone notice the increased amount of skunk in the valley?').

Aren't there rules for tracking a target from down wind?

Vurt · Jun 14, 2005

I would use a Knowledge (Nature) check to identify a scent. Make the DC 10 for animals, 15 for more unusual creatures, 20 for fantastic creatures, etc.

Some evil outsiders, for instance, carry around the whiff of brimstone, which would be easily detectable. But maybe a Knowledge (Nature) check DC 30 would be required to identify that, yeah, by the odour's strength it's coming from a Balor and not an Imp.

Also gives you're scenting fighter types good reasons to take cross-class skills.

Cheers,
Vurt