Power Attack with two-handed weapon

Trodax · Jun 22, 2005

Hi!
I have a quick question I'm a bit unsure about.
In D&D 3.5 when using Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, is the BAB-restriction on the attack penalty or on the damage bonus?

In other words, if I have BAB +10 and use a two-hander, what is the maximum use of Power Attack I can get? -10 attack/+20 damage or -5 attack/+10 damage?

Pinotage · Jun 22, 2005

Trodax said:
Hi!
I have a quick question I'm a bit unsure about.
In D&D 3.5 when using Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, is the BAB-restriction on the attack penalty or on the damage bonus?

In other words, if I have BAB +10 and use a two-hander, what is the maximum use of Power Attack I can get? -10 attack/+20 damage or -5 attack/+10 damage?

The BAB restriction is on the attack roll. So in your example, it's -10 attack/+20 Damage for a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon wielded with two hands.

Pinotage

Trodax · Jun 22, 2005

Pinotage said:
The BAB restriction is on the attack roll. So in your example, it's -10 attack/+20 Damage for a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon wielded with two hands.

Thanks a bunch, thats what I thought!

ZuulMoG · Jun 23, 2005

Gad. It's as bad as I'd heard. BAB10 = 10th level as a fighter type. At that level, a fighter is almost guaranteed to have a 20 Str (+5 attack), Weapon Focus (+1 attack), GWF(+1 more to attack), a magic weapon (say another +3), prolly a strength enhancer (another +2 say), so he'll have a first attack number of +12, almost a guaranteed hit on ogres and such, especially if he charges and adds another +2, lowering him to a 3 or higher on his d20 to hit. Assuming the weapon is a greatsword, and +3, it's doing 2d6+30 a whack, which is a guaranteed kill on an ogre, 85% of the time.

I remember when ogres could be relied on to tie a party up while the enemy mage cast some spells.

<thinks about burning his 3.x books when he gets home and digging the Orange-spined Good Books out again...>

Jhulae · Jun 23, 2005

Most 10th level characters aren't fighting ogres anymore.

In fact, the +3 weapon is rare now, too, since it's not necessary to overcome damage reduction.

However, even so, most things seem to have higher ACs (or at least DMs are throwing things out with higher ACs, so +12 is *not* anywhere near a 'sure thing' to hit, making blowing that much bonus on power attack not necessarily worth it.

Testament · Jun 23, 2005

ZuulMoG said:
Gad. It's as bad as I'd heard. BAB10 = 10th level as a fighter type. At that level, a fighter is almost guaranteed to have a 20 Str (+5 attack), Weapon Focus (+1 attack), GWF(+1 more to attack), a magic weapon (say another +3), prolly a strength enhancer (another +2 say), so he'll have a first attack number of +12, almost a guaranteed hit on ogres and such, especially if he charges and adds another +2, lowering him to a 3 or higher on his d20 to hit. Assuming the weapon is a greatsword, and +3, it's doing 2d6+30 a whack, which is a guaranteed kill on an ogre, 85% of the time.

I remember when ogres could be relied on to tie a party up while the enemy mage cast some spells.

And 10th level PCs are fighting vanilla unadvanced Ogres why now?

And always remember your Goose and Gander law. The 2 handed power attack rule makes Giants absolutely terrifying now, as opposed to older editions. Their enormous strength scores mean that they can full power attack and still hit reliably, for mountains of damage.

Pinotage · Jun 23, 2005

Yip. The two-handed Power Attack swings both ways. At low level ogres, and at higher levels giants and things like earth elementals can be deadly. It gets worse when you score a critical hit, and multiply that Power Attack damage.

Pinotage

ZuulMoG · Jun 23, 2005

Testament said:
And 10th level PCs are fighting vanilla unadvanced Ogres why now?

Take your pick--

1) Because the GM doesn't want the PCs to gain a level or two every session.
2) Even with one or two levels of Fighter, 32 pts of damage on min, and 37 on average, is going to guarantee a kill on an ogre.

Testament said:
And always remember your Goose and Gander law. The 2 handed power attack rule makes Giants absolutely terrifying now, as opposed to older editions. Their enormous strength scores mean that they can full power attack and still hit reliably, for mountains of damage.

This, however, I am taking under advisement. :goodjob:

Darkness · Jun 23, 2005

ZuulMoG said:
At [10th] level, a fighter is almost guaranteed to have a 20 Str (+5 attack), ... prolly a strength enhancer (another +2 say)

20 Str before magic? That means he had an 18 at 1st level. Which is quite possible, but whether it's "almost guaranteed" really depends on character race and chargen method.

Krelios · Jun 23, 2005

ZuulMoG said:
Take your pick--

1) Because the GM doesn't want the PCs to gain a level or two every session.
2) Even with one or two levels of Fighter, 32 pts of damage on min, and 37 on average, is going to guarantee a kill on an ogre.

This, however, I am taking under advisement. :goodjob:

Ogres are CR 2. Are the 10th level PCs gaining any XP for them? (I'm at work and don't have my DMG.)

Seriously, this is a strawman argument. Compare that 10th level fighter to a CR 10 monster and you'll have a much better argument. At best, he'll be forcing Death from Massive Damage saves, which the target monster will likely only fail on a 1. He's probably also doing about as much damage as a 10th level Rogue with a pair of +1 Frost shortswords and similar combat feats. It's really not overpowered at all.

Power Attack with two-handed weapon

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