2 Weapon Feat Build
sleepystyle said:
Consider switching some of your stats, Con 14 (+2 badly needed hp/ lvl and Fort saves) and Wis 14 (+2 on Wis based skill checks and will saves). Take Improved Toughness as soon as you can. 4 Levels of Fighter wouldn't be a bad idea, especially if you want to go TWF.
Max out Tumble, Search, Disable Device, Listen, Spot, and Hide!
When your able, buy a wounding weapon and a defending weapon and take the staggering strike feat and Crippling Strike rogue special ability. With this you will be able to do sneak attack damage + 1 pt of Con damage (Wounding weapon) + 2 Str damage (crippling strike) + Staggering Strike (limits movement to 1 move or 1 standard action for 1 round] and beef up your AC from the defending weapon if need be.
Now imagine doing that on a full attack. 1 con + 2 str + SA + Staggered + wpn damage per hit. Mind you once you hit the big nasty guy for all that damage your going to be a pile of meat, so get outta there!
Devin Cole
First Post
I had a character ranger2/fighter4/rogue9 who dealt out more damage with his twin short swords than any of the other characters in the party. He was able to tumble in and out of combat with ease to deliver sneak attacks to almost any enemy. I played him completely crazy and willing to take any risk because i was sure he could get out of any situation. I was wrong and he died by failing a......reflex save.....and falling into lava.
FireLance
Legend
Have you considered splash weapons?
1st - Improved Initiative (try your best to attack first)
3rd - Point Blank Shot (bump ranged attack roll and damge)
6th - Two-Weapon Fighting (bump number of attacks)
9th - Quick Draw (draw flasks quickly, for iterative attacks)
12th - Rapid Shot (bump number of attacks)
15th - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (bump number of attacks)
18th - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (bump number of attacks)
If you're playing a human, consider taking Far Shot at some point to attack more accurately from further away.
The advantage to this approach is that you can get 7 attacks per round (3 main hand, 3 off-hand, 1 Rapid Shot) with a ranged touch attack against flat-footed opponents, dealing acid or fire damage. It also works pretty well if you have Greater Invisibility.
The disadvantage to this approach is that your ammunition is heavy and costs 10 or 20 gp per flask, flanking is not a viable option, and you're not all that useful against creatures immune or resistant to acid and fire.
1st - Improved Initiative (try your best to attack first)
3rd - Point Blank Shot (bump ranged attack roll and damge)
6th - Two-Weapon Fighting (bump number of attacks)
9th - Quick Draw (draw flasks quickly, for iterative attacks)
12th - Rapid Shot (bump number of attacks)
15th - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (bump number of attacks)
18th - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (bump number of attacks)
If you're playing a human, consider taking Far Shot at some point to attack more accurately from further away.
The advantage to this approach is that you can get 7 attacks per round (3 main hand, 3 off-hand, 1 Rapid Shot) with a ranged touch attack against flat-footed opponents, dealing acid or fire damage. It also works pretty well if you have Greater Invisibility.
The disadvantage to this approach is that your ammunition is heavy and costs 10 or 20 gp per flask, flanking is not a viable option, and you're not all that useful against creatures immune or resistant to acid and fire.
FireLance
Legend
Yes, but the purpose is not to sneak attack from further away. Splash weapons have a range increment of 10 feet. Technically, this means that you take a penalty of -2 against targets 10 feet away, -4 against targets 20 feet away, and -6 against targets 30 feet away. Far shot allows you to attack with no penalty from a distance of up to 15 feet, and with only a -2 penalty at distances up to 35 feet, just a little over the maximum range of sneak attack.Shellman said:
Aust Diamondew
First Post
Don't waste a feat on alertness.
JimAde
First Post
FireLance said:
Even better. For thrown weapons the range increment doubles, so you have no penalty out to 20 ft, and only -2 to 40 ft. So you can stand 20 ft away which means that even someone with a reach weapon can't get to you with a 5 ft. step.
This is a worthy combination even if you just use regular throwing weapons like daggers or shuriken (the SA damage is most important anyway).
Hard to do with that build
As most other posters have stated, you've got a rogue who really isn't built for melee and you want to get into melee. I've played melee-combat rogues before and they're plenty of fun, but they're also hard to play and very dangerous (both to enemies and to you).
For starters, one thing you need to realize is that you cannot melee like a fighter. If you aren't dealing sneak attack damage, you better be certain you're fighting something that isn't meant to be a major melee threat. Your primary goals should be hitting spellcasters and support characters.
The Two-Weapon route is obviously tempting for the extra attack, but it isn't always the best bet. Generally, unless you invest some levels in fighter or ranger, you won't have the BAB and feats necessary to use TWF successfully. Try playing around with a spiked chain or even a two-handed weapon (or a rapier and a shield) to see if TWF is really what you're looking for.
Assuming it is, I'd try to pump up your dex (to help your attack rating with weapon finesse, to open up feat trees, and to give you much-needed AC and initiative boosts) and drop the alertness feat. If you can't raise your dex up to 18, I'd try to get 14 strength, you'll save yourself a feat, you'll open up more possible weapon combinations, and you'll get a minor but worthwhile damage boost to your attacks. Improved Initiative, TWF, and (at level 3) weapon focus would be a good starting feat trio. You'll need 14 con as a minimum. Try dropping your charisma, you'll probably end up as more of a scout / recon / assassian type, so trying to split yourself between a social rogue and a combat rogue is just going to give you huge headaches.
At low levels you should be pretty powerful, mostly because you'll have a good combination of dex and armor to keep you out of major trouble. You'll start to run into problems around the mid-levels, when enemy BAB gets dangerously high and your AC stays dangerously low. If you grab a few levels of fighter, you should invest in dodge and two-weapon defense, the extra +2 AC can be a lifesaver, especially since it will stack with everything else you're doing. Generally, you can murder any spellcaster provided they don't get a will-based spell on you first (thank goodness clerics and wizards have miserable spot scores), and you can hold your own against any general combatant aside from tank fighters. Heavily armored fighters are essentially your biggest weakness, they deal enough damage to put you in the ground and have a high AC that flanking doesn't help to counteract. Make sure you keep a ranged weapon handy, your decent dex scores and light-armor mobility let you make a great archer in a pinch.
Fighter / Rogues are my favorite class to play, and when used correctly they're one of the most lethal class combinations on the battlefield. Just rememeber, keep repeating to yourself: "I am not a front-line fighter."
As most other posters have stated, you've got a rogue who really isn't built for melee and you want to get into melee. I've played melee-combat rogues before and they're plenty of fun, but they're also hard to play and very dangerous (both to enemies and to you).
For starters, one thing you need to realize is that you cannot melee like a fighter. If you aren't dealing sneak attack damage, you better be certain you're fighting something that isn't meant to be a major melee threat. Your primary goals should be hitting spellcasters and support characters.
The Two-Weapon route is obviously tempting for the extra attack, but it isn't always the best bet. Generally, unless you invest some levels in fighter or ranger, you won't have the BAB and feats necessary to use TWF successfully. Try playing around with a spiked chain or even a two-handed weapon (or a rapier and a shield) to see if TWF is really what you're looking for.
Assuming it is, I'd try to pump up your dex (to help your attack rating with weapon finesse, to open up feat trees, and to give you much-needed AC and initiative boosts) and drop the alertness feat. If you can't raise your dex up to 18, I'd try to get 14 strength, you'll save yourself a feat, you'll open up more possible weapon combinations, and you'll get a minor but worthwhile damage boost to your attacks. Improved Initiative, TWF, and (at level 3) weapon focus would be a good starting feat trio. You'll need 14 con as a minimum. Try dropping your charisma, you'll probably end up as more of a scout / recon / assassian type, so trying to split yourself between a social rogue and a combat rogue is just going to give you huge headaches.
At low levels you should be pretty powerful, mostly because you'll have a good combination of dex and armor to keep you out of major trouble. You'll start to run into problems around the mid-levels, when enemy BAB gets dangerously high and your AC stays dangerously low. If you grab a few levels of fighter, you should invest in dodge and two-weapon defense, the extra +2 AC can be a lifesaver, especially since it will stack with everything else you're doing. Generally, you can murder any spellcaster provided they don't get a will-based spell on you first (thank goodness clerics and wizards have miserable spot scores), and you can hold your own against any general combatant aside from tank fighters. Heavily armored fighters are essentially your biggest weakness, they deal enough damage to put you in the ground and have a high AC that flanking doesn't help to counteract. Make sure you keep a ranged weapon handy, your decent dex scores and light-armor mobility let you make a great archer in a pinch.
Fighter / Rogues are my favorite class to play, and when used correctly they're one of the most lethal class combinations on the battlefield. Just rememeber, keep repeating to yourself: "I am not a front-line fighter."
Similar Threads
