Questions about Public Domain

Mark Causey · Jul 5, 2005

Forgive me if I'm using the wrong term(s).

I'm looking for some advice/reference for what is considered to be public domain (i.e., materials that anyone can use without fear of copyright infringement). I'm pretty sure that classical mythology is (Greek/Roman, Norse), but how do I figure out if other concepts are?

Thanks for any help that can be provided.

Justin D. Jacobson · Jul 5, 2005

It's complicated. The safest thing to do is consult with an attorney. However, as a practical matter, the best indicator is the year of publication, and anything published awhile ago is most likely safe. Exactly how long "awhile" is depends on several factors, but 99% of anything from the 1800's and earlier is likely in the public domain. Again, this is not a guarantee or a brightline rule -- just a guide.

Additionally, your initial post is confusing that that your question refers to "concepts." Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only the representations of ideas. So, the concept of a star-spanning epic with a sect of quasi-religious mage-types fighting against an ebon-clod ex-member is perfectly viable. Calling them "jedi" is not.

FYI, this is an issue of great concern to us for our forthcoming Thrilling Passages book, which relies on utilizing famous literary characters in the public domain. Interestingly, there are many instances where a character has fallen in the public domain but where many of the most famous publications involving them are not, e.g., Sherlock Holmes and Cthulhu.

Mark Causey · Jul 5, 2005

Hmm, I can see that some of my thinking on this has become rather uptight. So, in terms of copyrights, if I want to riff off of some ideas, I'm safe so long as my representations are significantly different from others' representations. And, can I assume, its better to list others' ideas as references, and best if I have some level of interaction with the creator to confirm non-duplication of representation beforehand?

afstanton · Jul 6, 2005

Bad idea. Copyright can also extend to protecting against derived works.

Really, consult a lawyer.

There is a date (I forget the exact date, it's somewhere in the 1920's) before which any work published in the US is considered public domain, but you have to be extremely careful.

Concepts are possible to be reused, but if you place a work directly in Middle Earth, for example, and use place names, and character names, you can safely expect Tolkein's estate to squish you like a bug. Elves and the like, sure, that's been around forever, but Galadriel? Minas Tirith? Forget it.

S'mon · Jul 6, 2005

Works published in the US before 1923 are all in the public domain AFAIK, as are many other works, eg most of REH's Conan stories are public domain because they weren't copyright registered at a time when registration was necessary for protection. Trademarks is a different issue.

S'mon · Jul 6, 2005

adamantineangel said:
Hmm, I can see that some of my thinking on this has become rather uptight. So, in terms of copyrights, if I want to riff off of some ideas, I'm safe so long as my representations are significantly different from others' representations.

Use of ideas is fine - ideas aren't generally copyrightable (unless the idea is incredibly detailed & specific), only the expression of the idea is copyrightable. Names & short sentences aren't copyrightable but may be trademarked, eg Lucas has probably registered Darth Vader as a TM. Myths & legends are certainly public domain, as are nearly all 19th century authors (exception - if they lived beyond 1935 they may still be in copyright, copyright term for author-owned works is 70 years from death in UK & Europe, in US likewise but in US not for old works in which copyright was never registered or lapsed). Surprisingly little old US stuff is actually c-protected because the US had formality requirements until recently, whereas European countries did not.

jmucchiello · Jul 6, 2005

S'mon said:
Works published in the US before 1923 are all in the public domain AFAIK, as are many other works, eg most of REH's Conan stories are public domain because they weren't copyright registered at a time when registration was necessary for protection.

This is not true. Happy Birthday to You (the song) was written in the 1870s and it still has copyright protection today.

Unless you are talking about works from the 1700s or earlier there is no one safe cutoff date.

Sherlock Holmes and Cthulu are not copyrighted. They are trademarked. That's a different kettle of fish.

Arnix · Jul 6, 2005

Check Project Guttenberg for specific copyright free works. They have done the legal work for you (IIRC). This does not mean that they are not Trademarked, which is its own confusing animal (worse than Copyright), but only covers specific areas.

Btw, SHerlock Holmes is only trademarked in specific areas (plates, cups, etc). The collected works are not covered: S/N 78059718 (ABANDONED) IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: books, videos & gifts

Make sure you run some trademark searches before getting crazy

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=search&state=k577rd.1.1

S'mon · Jul 6, 2005

jmucchiello said:
This is not true. Happy Birthday to You (the song) was written in the 1870s and it still has copyright protection today.

How did it manage that? Is there a source I can read? (I teach copyright law in the UK)

GMSkarka · Jul 6, 2005

S'mon said:
How did it manage that? Is there a source I can read? (I teach copyright law in the UK)

Snopes has a good summary.

Questions about Public Domain

Mark Causey

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Justin D. Jacobson

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Mark Causey

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afstanton

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S'mon

Legend

S'mon

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jmucchiello

Hero

Arnix

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S'mon

Legend

GMSkarka

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