How many 18th level fighters could an 18th level fighter take out

Okay, for those of you whom love to number crunch, here is a good one. How many 18th level 1st edition AD&D fighters could a 18th level 3.5 fighter take on and still win, most of the time?

I was reading another thread where the guy was asking about why most of the original modules prefered at least 10 characters. It made me think about the differences of AD&D and 3.5. The characters in 3.5 are far more powerful becasue of feats and skills and crits and the like, so it got me thinking, how many 18th level fighters could a 18th level 3.5 fighter take on at once?

Make your 1st edition AD&D characters using the original AD&D book and rules. If you want to spice things up a bit, try using the 1st edition Unearthed arcana since you can then make use of weapon specializations and slightly better attacks.

Use this as your base stats:
Str 17, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6 and refer to the 3.5 character for race and the like. Try to match simular gear when possible to make it fair.

Use this 3.5 character:
Tordek:
Male dwarf Ftrl8; Medium-size humanoid; HD 18dlO+126; hp 229; Init +3; Spd 15 ft., fly 60 ft. good; AC 41 (touch 17, flat-footed 38); Atk +31/+26/+21/+16 melee (ldlO+14/18-20/X3, +5 dwarven waraxe) or +29/+24/+19/+14 (ld8+12, +3 warhammer) or +25 ranged (2d8+10/19-20/X3, dwarven thrower); SQ Dwarf traits; AL LN; SV Fort +22, Ref +13, Will +12; Str 25, Dex 17, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6.

Skills and Feats: Climb +24, Jump +18, Ride (pony) +9; Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dwarven waraxe), Far Shot, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (dwarven waraxe), Improved Critical (warhammer), Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe), Weapon Focus (warhammer), Weapon Specialization (dwarven waraxe), Weapon Specialization (warhammer).

Possessions: +5 mithral plate armor, +5 large wooden shield, amulet of natural armor +4, ring of protection +4, +5 keen dwarven waraxe, dwarven thrower (+3 warhammer), belt of giant strength +6, bracers of health +6, cloak of resistance +4, gloves of Dexterity +4, 4 potions of cure serious wounds, 4 potions of heroism, winged boots, periapt of Wisdom, manual of bodily health +2 (used), backpack, bedroll, climber's kit, flint and steel, sack, 50 ft. silk rope, 1 day's trail rations, waterskin.

...I don't know what this question even MEANS.

Anabstercorian said:

...I don't know what this question even MEANS.

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How many AD&D 1st edition 18th level fighters could a D&D 3rd edition 18 level fighter kill?

How many 18th level 1st edition AD&D fighters could an 18th level 3rd edition D&D fighter take out.?

In most cultures that would be one. And usually of the opposite sex. Being 18th level and having accumulated something in the way of wealth, a swanky restaurant and a play or opera is preferred. In some societies a sporting event may be substituted.

In a more 'earthy' culture standing for a round of drinks and a pool game is allowed, but it is a rare culture where the date consists of going off on a raid of the neighbors.

Other events include poetry readings, musical recitals, a puppet show (an example of 'slumming), a music hall production (more slumming), boat rides, and carriage rides. A picnic in the country can be combined with vampire nest eradication and similar activities. To whet the appetite.

Very important, don't wear spiked armor. At some point in the date you may well be expected to 'cuddle up'. As a matter of fact, wearing armor of any kind is considered gauche. Bracers, rings and cloaks of protection, and the like will serve as an adequate substitution, while making any noodling the two of you engage in more ... comfortable.

And remember that not all 18th level fighters, regardless of edition, have any interest in talking shop. When most people reach 18th level the romance of adventuring has pretty much worn off. It's a job, nothing more. Your date is more likely to want to talk about the kids, local politics (but not if your date's at ENWorld), sports, the arts, literature, religion (again, not at ENWorld), or the weather. Gossip is always fun. This holds true for guys, who, if anything, are even worse gossips than the ladies.

Please be aware that wiping out thorps, hamlets, and small villages while out on a date is frowned upon in most circles. Conquering small countries is right out.

Make sure you have enough on hand to pay for everything, and have many ways to get your date home at the end of the evening. Just in case.

I hope this was helpful.

mythusmage said:

How many 18th level 1st edition AD&D fighters could an 18th level 3rd edition D&D fighter take out.?

In most cultures that would be one. And usually of the opposite sex. Being 18th level and having accumulated something in the way of wealth, a swanky restaurant and a play or opera is preferred. In some societies a sporting event may be substituted.

In a more 'earthy' culture standing for a round of drinks and a pool game is allowed, but it is a rare culture where the date consists of going off on a raid of the neighbors.

Other events include poetry readings, musical recitals, a puppet show (an example of 'slumming), a music hall production (more slumming), boat rides, and carriage rides. A picnic in the country can be combined with vampire nest eradication and similar activities. To whet the appetite.

Very important, don't wear spiked armor. At some point in the date you may well be expected to 'cuddle up'. As a matter of fact, wearing armor of any kind is considered gauche. Bracers, rings and cloaks of protection, and the like will serve as an adequate substitution, while making any noodling the two of you engage in more ... comfortable.

And remember that not all 18th level fighters, regardless of edition, have any interest in talking shop. When most people reach 18th level the romance of adventuring has pretty much worn off. It's a job, nothing more. Your date is more likely to want to talk about the kids, local politics (but not if your date's at ENWorld), sports, the arts, literature, religion (again, not at ENWorld), or the weather. Gossip is always fun. This holds true for guys, who, if anything, are even worse gossips than the ladies.

Please be aware that wiping out thorps, hamlets, and small villages while out on a date is frowned upon in most circles. Conquering small countries is right out.

Make sure you have enough on hand to pay for everything, and have many ways to get your date home at the end of the evening. Just in case.

I hope this was helpful.

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Wow, that was the most on topic yet still a complete waste of my time that I have ever read, keep it up!

DM-Rocco said:

Use this 3.5 character:
Tordek:
Male dwarf Ftrl8; Medium-size humanoid; HD 18dlO+126; hp 229; Init +3; Spd 15 ft., fly 60 ft. good; AC 41 (touch 17, flat-footed 38); Atk +31/+26/+21/+16 melee (ldlO+14/18-20/X3, +5 dwarven waraxe) or +29/+24/+19/+14 (ld8+12, +3 warhammer) or +25 ranged (2d8+10/19-20/X3, dwarven thrower); SQ Dwarf traits; AL LN; SV Fort +22, Ref +13, Will +12; Str 25, Dex 17, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6.

Skills and Feats: Climb +24, Jump +18, Ride (pony) +9; Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dwarven waraxe), Far Shot, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (dwarven waraxe), Improved Critical (warhammer), Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe), Weapon Focus (warhammer), Weapon Specialization (dwarven waraxe), Weapon Specialization (warhammer).

Possessions: +5 mithral plate armor, +5 large wooden shield, amulet of natural armor +4, ring of protection +4, +5 keen dwarven waraxe, dwarven thrower (+3 warhammer), belt of giant strength +6, bracers of health +6, cloak of resistance +4, gloves of Dexterity +4, 4 potions of cure serious wounds, 4 potions of heroism, winged boots, periapt of Wisdom, manual of bodily health +2 (used), backpack, bedroll, climber's kit, flint and steel, sack, 50 ft. silk rope, 1 day's trail rations, waterskin.

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To be valid, the AD&D 1e guy must be translated to 3.5 values. Here is my attempt:

Torghrim The Meek:
Male dwarf Ftr18; Medium-size humanoid; HD 9d10+27+27; hp 100; Init +1; Spd 20 ft., fly 60 ft. good; AC 41 (touch 17, flat-footed 38); Atk +29/+29 melee (1d8+8/no crit, +5 dwarven waraxe) or blah blah; SQ Dwarf traits; AL LN; SV Fort +22(?), Ref +11(?), Will +12(?); Str 23 (+7), Dex 13, Con 16 (+3), Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6.

Skills and Feats: None.

Possessions: +5 mithral plate armor, +5 large wooden shield, amulet of natural armor +4, ring of protection +4, +5 keen dwarven waraxe, dwarven thrower (+3 warhammer), belt of giant strength +6, bracers of health +6, cloak of resistance +4, gloves of Dexterity +4, 4 potions of cure serious wounds, 4 potions of heroism, winged boots, periapt of Wisdom, manual of bodily health +2 (used), backpack, bedroll, climber's kit, flint and steel, sack, 50 ft. silk rope, 1 day's trail rations, waterskin.

In any case, DMing characters with such an odious amount in magical items is not worth the hassle for me.

mythusmage said:

I hope this was helpful.

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Can't speak for the thread starter, but this might be the best post I've read this year - anywhere.

A PC IMC is dating an 18th level NPC Paladin... I actually found that post useful... *eek*

Considering that the 1ed figter had probebly have been in 10-20 times more adventures than the 3ed guy, considering that he might has faced(with his 5-6 friends") "unique" creatures like Orkus, Lloth, demogorgon and not only lived but defeated them. So considering that he is likely to have 3-4 artefacts. I say 2-3!

Previuos edision advansment rate was about 1l per 4-5 major adventures(as example I run group of 6 PCs (13Level) RtToH and none advanced a level?:\) Compare this to Return to ToEE or city of the Spider queen advancing from (4 to 14) and (10 to 18)

The two edisions are just at different power scale. My opiniomn is that the 1ed is more powerful in his respectful setting. Yes the 3ed is harder but so are his adversaries(in 1-2 ed if you see a creature with 150+hp chances are they are at least demi-gods)

Sorry for the rant,
Ny answer "only" 2-3, due to the better equipment and more combat experiance.

Oddly enough, they'd both be more effective naked and with one leg stapled to the floor to remove any Dex bonus. They'd both get to AC 10 that way...otherwise, the 1st Ed fighter will be trying to hit an AC in the high 30s at least -- pretty easy when it gets harder to hit when the AC is lower. The 3rd Ed fighter, conversely, would otherwise be trying to hit an AC of -8 or so, again ridculously easy when you start out at +20....