Symbol of Discord worked...on our players!

So the rogue set off a symbol of discord while opening a chest. We all give the spell a quick read and determine that all our characters start arguing (says nothing about a save in the spell so we are assuming there was none) for 5 rounds. Now after that we also determine that there is a 50% chance that each one of us who differs in alignment will "attack each other".

That is where the real discord began. Instantly we start with a 15 minute shouting match on how this should be handled. Finally our dm rules that basically we role in initiative order with everyone we can see, closest to farthest. If you attack someone, he automatically attacks you back. Since we have a large party (9 players and one npc) So, due to line of sight issues, the relavent players are the archer, who is attacking our reincarnated bear fighter, my monk, who is attacking our wizard, and a rogue who, due to lucky roles, doesn't seem to be attacking anyone.

We did not yet start the fight, it was getting too late, but this spell is blissfully free of clarification.

I think the discord description is on PHB page 263 for those who have books available.

1. Is there any errata on saves for this part of the symbol spell? (it doesn't say one way or the other)

2. Do those of us who are good have to go all out or must we attack to kill?

3. We will be attacking each other for 7 rounds, which is plenty of time for us to kill each other off. Do we then have to roll for a new target (the 50% again)

4. Will the rogue just continue shouting at the fighting players or wil he wander off to see if he can find someone else who will pay more attention to his arguments, and thereby have to roll more 50% chances?

5. How can this spell be balanced at all when it promises to whipe out half of a 18th level party (someone has to win each fight) with the only real chance for survival being either A. the whole party haveing the exact same alignment, or B. one character (my monk) actually having his weak SR kick in?

I know there will be alot of judgement calls in here, but anyone if anyone has ANY kind of official comment on this spell available, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

Greythax

Greythax said:

So the rogue set off a symbol of discord while opening a chest. We all give the spell a quick read and determine that all our characters start arguing (says nothing about a save in the spell so we are assuming there was none) for 5 rounds.

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Um, under "discord": "All creatures ... who fail a Will save immediately fall into loud bickering and arguing" [PHB p.263].

Other than that, I'd say that a fight is a fight. If you made your Will save, you don't have to take part, but you might still get dragged in anyway if one of your (ex-)friends attacks you.

hong, do you have a second printing of the PHB? When looking at mine, Discord says "All creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher within 60 feet imeediately fall into loud bickereing and arguing." It makes no mention of a save for Discord. I'd check if there is an errata or a change in the SRD, but wizards.com seems to be having problems.

As for balance on the spell, it is an 8th level spell and they are really nasty at that level. Plus, it had been possible that you would only be attacking each other for 2 rounds, you got quite unlucky for the fighting to last 7 rounds.

Wow, thats a really fun spell. Since it is 8th level, I'd expect it to be wicked. So, fights ON!

Since the fight is conducted along alignment lines, there's an arguement to be made that its a Holy War and that everyone fights to win, without quarter. Alternately, "fight" could imply that each alignment fights according to its principles; Good and Law trying to subdue if possible, Evil and Chaos going all out. I certainly wouldnt hamstring the Good players by forcing them to subdue; they will try to avoid casualties, but not at the cost of being ineffective themselves.

I think the end result will be less spectacular than you fear; several people will make their saves (if Hong is correct; my 1st ED PHB says nothing about the save) and several more wont get caught up in the fighting. I expect to see a big, grapply dogpile on the few real combatants.

(edit: Make sure to tell us what happens! Enquiring minds want to know!)

Ealli said:

hong, do you have a second printing of the PHB? When looking at mine, Discord says "All creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher within 60 feet imeediately fall into loud bickereing and arguing." It makes no mention of a save for Discord. I'd check if there is an errata or a change in the SRD, but wizards.com seems to be having problems.

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2nd printing, yes. It's also in the PHB corrections pdf on the WOTC site.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/phb_corrections.zip

Ah, sweet. Of course the dm has set rediculously high dc on the saves, but at least that gives us a chance. Many of us will make them. Waking up and getting a fresh perspective on things, wouldn't this spell more aptly be handled by one 50/50 roll, if it indicates a fight, then everyone of opposite alignment enters melee, as opposed to the case by case basis that we were doing it on?

Thanks for the info guys!

Greythax