Character Build: Dragon Disciple

Scratched_back · Aug 7, 2005

Hi all,

A friend of mine just got coup-de-graced by a Harpy (Please, no more laughing!) and we don't have the resources to raise him so it's new character time. I suggested a Dragon Disciple because they look quite novel and I've never seen one be used before. He's on the fence about it. Could somebody take a look at these stat rolls and suggest where to attriubute them if he goes for it, and also the best route in, bearing in mind he'd like to be more melee than caster.

Starting Level: 5th (I'm aware 6th is earliest for DD, just need advice on routes generally).
Stats: 18, 18, 15, 13, 12, 10 (+1 floating point for 4th level - Yes he's a lucky roller).
Race: Flexible (Feel free to make suggestions for/against different races.
Sources: Core and Completes only please.

He said he's quite sceptical about their ability to tank because typically to get into the class you'd have to go via Bard or Sorcerer; not well known for their hitpoints or melee talents.

As ever, I thank replying ENWorlders in advance.

Take care.

-Ben

Jack Simth · Aug 7, 2005

Ah, but here's the thing - he only needs a single level in either Bard or Sorceror to qualify - the rest can be ... Barbarian, say (Note that pretty much any class will work in place of the barbarian levels; if you have something that requires you be lawful, take Sorceror, instead, and put it earlier on in the progression):
Barbarian 4/Bard 1/Dragon Disciple X
18 Dex, 18 Str, 15 Con, 13 Cha, 12 Int, 10 Wis, floating +1 at 4th into Con
At first, put your Bonus Language into Draconic, put one cross-class skill point into Knoweledge(Arcana), with the Bard level, put all 7 skill points into Knoweledge(Arcana) (taken as a class skill) and you will then meet all the pre-req's at 5th and ready to take DD at 6th. The Natural Armour increases help make up for the Barbarian's lack of armour, the rage synergizes nicely with the DD's strength boosts, and the natural attacks (Dragon Disciple 2) deal with the whole sunder/disarm issue.

Barbarian/Bard or Ranger/Bard work well for a damage dealer build; Fighter/Bard, Sorceror/Paladin (can't take Paladin/Bard....), or Cleric/Bard work well for tank builds (for heavy armor proficiency).

You could also replace the Bard level with a Sorceror level in any of the above, but then you would need to take the Sorceror level earlier, as a Sorceror doesn't get as many skill points as the bard for quickly filling out those needed Knoweledge(Arcane) ranks (although some of the options have Knoweledge(Arcane) as class skills for all classes, and can take either anywhere).

rowport · Aug 7, 2005

Jack Smith covered it pretty well. Thanee has some ideas on this as well in past strings; try googling or searching for dragon disciple here on ENWorld. One slightly funky build that I like is Monk 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple X. Take True Strike with Dragon Disciple and go Stunning Fist crazy! I also like the Hexblade/Dragon Disciple concept, but it takes several levels to work effectively because of the slow Hexblade casting progression. That might be out as non-core anyway... If you can stray from core a bit, I always thought it would be fun to play a melee dude x/Sorcerer 1/ Dragon Disciple X that takes all the Draconic feats from Complete Arcane.

Anyway, the most important factor to remember is that DD's are *melee* dudes, not primarily spellcasters. His spellcasting should be minimal, and either utility or buff spells only.

Thanee · Aug 7, 2005

We just lost our Barbarian/.../Dragon Disciple, so I guess it's the big, universal equation, that there must be someone creating one now to keep the balance.

Scratched_back said:
Starting Level: 5th (I'm aware 6th is earliest for DD, just need advice on routes generally).
Stats: 18, 18, 15, 13, 12, 10 (+1 floating point for 4th level - Yes he's a lucky roller).
Race: Flexible (Feel free to make suggestions for/against different races.
Sources: Core and Completes only please.

Dragon Disciple is definitely a fighter class, not a spellcaster, but that seems to be the route he wants to go, so that is covered.

With those stats, he will probably be quite effective, too.

As Jack already said, you need only one level in a spellcasting class to cover the requirements, and that is probably the best way, too... or was, before Complete Adventurer, since now 4 levels of sorcerer can actually be quite appealing with spells like Wraithstrike available at 2nd level. He'll have quite a few spell slots to cast that eventually.

Here's an example, how it could look like:

Human Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 0 (not yet

)

Str 18
Dex 15+1
Con 18
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 12

Hit Points: 12+4d4+20 (44 hp - that's about what a fighter with a 14 Con has at this level)
Skills: Climb 4 ranks, Jump 4 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Listen 4 ranks, Survival 4 ranks, Swim 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Concentration 8 ranks
Feats: Extra Rage (1st), Power Attack (human), Cleave (3rd), (Combat Expertise (6th), Improved Trip (9th)).
Spells: 1st - Shield, True Strike, Critical Strike; 2nd - Wraithstrike.
Equipment: Greatsword, Mithril Breastplate, etc.

With mithril armor, the arcane spell failure is low enough to be feasible (even the 25% from mithril full plate), sometimes a spell won't work because of that, but I wouldn't worry about it too much, just do not run around in heavy armor (it would also reduce the nice fast movement, anyways).

Bye
Thanee

Scion · Aug 7, 2005

If you are willing to use homebrewed stuff I have a modified halfdragon class which makes it much more gish like.

It needs a little work (very little) to fit into a different campaign, but the player was happy enough with it.

moritheil · Aug 7, 2005

Scratched_back said:
He said he's quite sceptical about their ability to tank . . .

-Ben

Go for Paladin/Sorc and put an 18 into Charisma. That way your save bonuses will be huge (+5 to all from Divine Grace alone once DD gives you +2 Cha.) If you're tanking, you're already taking damage, so you'd better minimize any incidental spell damage you take. Look into taking Pious Templar later for Mettle, too.

So that will look like:

Str 13
Dex 15+1
Con 18
Int 12 (or Int 10 if you don't want the skill points, or actually want to cast paladin spells)
Wis 10 (or Wis 12)
Cha 18

Your strength will suck for a melee fighter, but 1) you're going to get a breath weapon, and 2) DD will give you progressive str increases (as well as con and a bit of cha.) 13 is just enough str to qualify for important feats.

Wield a 2h weapon and power attack with True Strike to ensure that you don't miss. (Note that Arcane Failure doesn't apply to True Strike, as it has no somatic components.)

Compounding the fact that you can tank decently and soak up spell damage, you can heal yourself with lay on hands, which doesn't provoke AOOs, though it is a standard action. Four levels of paladin gets you 16 hit points/day, which increases to 20 when your charisma goes up to 20.

You're immune to diseases, and can play with turning feats, which is nice. With a 12 wis, you'll be able to cast one 1st-level paladin spell per day, or you can toss the 12 into int for skill points. If going for paladin spells, you can look at Bless Weapon, Lesser Restoration, or Protection from Evil.

Thanee · Aug 7, 2005

moritheil said:
Your strength will suck for a melee fighter, but 1) you're going to get a breath weapon, ...

Please, go and look the breath weapon up!

Bye
Thanee

moritheil · Aug 7, 2005

Thanee said:
Please, go and look the breath weapon up!

Bye
Thanee

I know you can't use it continuously. Are you trying to say that the damage stinks? If he really wants to tank, he should focus on defense first and worry about offense second or even third.

Psychologically, a breath weapon is great for attracting opponents' attention, though, which is another thing he needs to worry about as a defense-oriented player.

werk · Aug 7, 2005

I'm at third level, headed for dragon disciple in my current campaign. I'm playing a deathtouched (Dragon 313) Battle Sorcerer. It gives me nice hitpoints, decent BAB, and ignores light ASF. I wish I had stats like your buddy's.

PrinceZane · Aug 7, 2005

I'm kinda biased here. I'm a hardcore dragon fanatic. DD is good, but it just comes no where near close to pureblood dragon. I've played both DD char and dragon char, and DD is so far below the real thing, its hard for me to take it seriously anymore.