Stone Fist Spell in Races of Stone + Natural Weapons?

saucercrab · Aug 13, 2005

Simple question, can the stone fist spell on page 163 of RoS be applied to a creature with natural claw attacks, where the claws are on the hands? For example, can a troll, xill, etc. benefit from this spell & have bludgeoning natural attacks? Can the claw attacks be turned into slam attacks?

The spell (rightfully) assumes that most casters of the spell won't have pre-existing natural attacks on their hands.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Aug 14, 2005

What is the rules text of the spell?

saucercrab · Aug 14, 2005

Okay:

[Text]
Your fists turn into menacing, rocky lumps capable of inflicting deadly wounds. While this spell is in effect, your unarmed attacks do not provoke attacks of opportunity, & they deal lethal bludgeoning damage. The damage that your unarmed attacks deal increases as well, according to your size as given on the table below.

[Table not included/necessary at this point]

If your unarmed strike already deals more damage than the indicated amount, you always use the higher value. In addition, if you are a dwarf or goliath under the effects of this spell, your unarmed attacks overcome damage reduction as if they were cold iron weapons.
[/Text]

Unarmed strike is used only once, & that is when the attack/strike is referenced in the singular.

Ranes · Aug 14, 2005

My gut reaction is to say that it can't be applied to claw attacks. It's difficult to imagine a creature making a fist when it has claws that are big and/or sharp enough to be natural weapons.

Drowbane · Aug 14, 2005

saucercrab said:
Okay:

[Text]
Your fists turn into menacing, rocky lumps capable of inflicting deadly wounds. While this spell is in effect, your unarmed attacks do not provoke attacks of opportunity, & they deal lethal bludgeoning damage. The damage that your unarmed attacks deal increases as well, according to your size as given on the table below.

[Table not included/necessary at this point]

If your unarmed strike already deals more damage than the indicated amount, you always use the higher value. In addition, if you are a dwarf or goliath under the effects of this spell, your unarmed attacks overcome damage reduction as if they were cold iron weapons.
[/Text]

Unarmed strike is used only once, & that is when the attack/strike is referenced in the singular.

Strictly speaking... Unarmed attacks are not Natural Attacks. Two different attack forms. So, no... by RAW the spell applies only to unarmed strikes, but not claws, slams, bites, etc.

Ranes · Aug 14, 2005

Drowbane said:
Strictly speaking... Unarmed attacks are not Natural Attacks. Two different attack forms. So, no... by RAW the spell applies only to unarmed strikes, but not claws, slams, bites, etc.

That's better reasoning. Thanks, Drowbane.

Egres · Aug 14, 2005

Drowbane said:
Strictly speaking... Unarmed attacks are not Natural Attacks. Two different attack forms. So, no... by RAW the spell applies only to unarmed strikes, but not claws, slams, bites, etc.

Natural Weapons are a subset of Unarmed Attacks, while natural attacks are never defined in the rules.

Unarmed Strikes are a subset of Unarmed Attacks too, and are clearly separate from Natural Weapons.

saucercrab · Aug 14, 2005

Ranes said:
My gut reaction is to say that it can't be applied to claw attacks. It's difficult to imagine a creature making a fist when it has claws that are big and/or sharp enough to be natural weapons.

You mean, like a succubus or gray slaad? Guess it depends on the artist.

Ranes & Drowbane,
Egres has a point. PHB, page 139, under Standard Actions - Attack - Unarmed Attacks, both Improved Unarmed Strike (as per the monk or feat) & natural attacks are considered unarmed attacks.

Is there anything that references changing/altering a creature's natural attacks?

Stone Fist Spell in Races of Stone + Natural Weapons?

saucercrab

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Patryn of Elvenshae

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saucercrab

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Ranes

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Drowbane

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Ranes

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Egres

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saucercrab

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