Troll with Die Hard Feat/Subdual with Die Hard

Endur · Aug 20, 2005

Does a Troll with the Die Hard feat continue to operate (as disabled) while in negative hit points?

Does anyone with subdual damage greater then their hit points have the ability to stay conscious if they have the Die Hard feat?

Someone · Aug 20, 2005

1-Yes, it´s what the feat says. If the troll reaches -10 hit points, he dies.

2-No, the feat doesn´t mention any ability related with non-lethal damage.

DevoutlyApathetic · Aug 20, 2005

Someone said:
2-No, the fat doesn´t mention any ability related with non-lethal damage.

Which of course means the feat does nothing beyond the auto-stablize if you use the RAW.

Hypersmurf · Aug 21, 2005

DevoutlyApathetic said:
Which of course means the feat does nothing beyond the auto-stablize if you use the RAW.

Well, that depends. Someone with 1 point of non-lethal damage and -1 hit points has non-lethal damage in excess of their hit points.

Someone with no non-lethal damage and -1 hit points does not have non-lethal damage in excess of their hit points; the relationship between 'none' and -1 is undefined. (As opposed to the relationship between 0 and -1.)

-Hyp.

Starglim · Aug 21, 2005

SRD said:
DIEHARD
When reduced to negative hit points, you may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying.

When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not “real” damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. [emphasis in original]

Regeneration (Ex): A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage.

The troll has not been reduced to negative hit points (because nonlethal damage does not reduce its hit points), so the feat has no effect and the troll falls unconscious. If the troll was reduced to negative hit points by real damage and had/took any amount of nonlethal damage, see Hypersmurf's response, with the addition that being disabled rather than dying does not prevent you from falling unconscious due to nonlethal damage.

Fieari · Aug 22, 2005

On the other hand, unless the troll is a PC, there's no reason to not make this troll more powerful than other trolls by effectively giving it 10 more non lethal hp on top of the Die Hard feat.

Caliban · Aug 22, 2005

Fieari said:
On the other hand, unless the troll is a PC, there's no reason to not make this troll more powerful than other trolls by effectively giving it 10 more non lethal hp on top of the Die Hard feat.

That wouldn't make a bad feat in it's own right.

Hard-Headed

You do not fall unconcious when non-lethal damage exceeds your current hit point total. Instead, you fall unconcious when non-lethal damage exceeds your current hit point total +10, and are staggered when non-lethal damage equals your current hit points or greater.