Spell
First Post
i am not being playing much, lately.
blame the other commitments, blame changing city every other year, but i am afraid i have a bigger problem here. i don't have a system of choice anymore.
when i started to play, there was only D&D to me. then AD&D second edtion came along and i loved it. sure, i was still happy to GM other games (namely Call of Cthulhu or, later, vampire), but i knew that, when i really wanted to get down to business, i was playing AD&D.
i didn't mind the complexities of the system, or the holes in the rules, or the amount of (sometimes crappy) optional material out there, mainly because i had the luck of having 4 other DMs in my gaming group (totalling 5 people, excluding me), who kind of shared my style of gaming, and didn't abuse the rules or created too big a fuss over inconsistency X.
then the 3rd edition came along. man, i loved it. i saw that it wasn't too backwards compatible, but, hell, there were so many good things...
but i became disillusioned when i first changed my city. wizards were putting out books i didn't really like, there were a lot of crappy third party products around (and i couldn't find an autoritative source for reviews), and the sheer amount of rules made very difficult to introduce new players ("ok, in order to play, you have to read this 300 page tome..."). the psionic handbook and the epic level handbook were the last two nails in the coffin.
i switched to GURPS. lots of rules, true... but there's GURPS lite with a nice summary. i loved the system and i still do (in fact, i think it's my system of choice for all the modern time adventures and the multigenre ones). but fantasy didn't feel the same with it. i longed for my old game style.
to make an old story short, i am trying a way to bring together the best parts of the systems i like together. i would like you to help me with some advice, or insight, or idea, or what has you.
a very important point: this is NOT a thread where you can educate the rest of the reading public of why such game (or such edition, or such rule) sucks, or is utterly brilliant. i don't care for that. you are allowed to start your own thread for that.
also, please, do not make a point to comment too much on my tastes. if you say: "why don't you like this? this can be worked like this and that, so that in the end, blah blah blah" that's alright! if you just go: "man, you don't like rule Y? i think you suck!" that doesn't add ANYTHING to the discussion, and feels like a personal attack (my tastes can seem stupid to you, but i can't do anything about it!)
let's start, then!!!
i want a fantasy game that i can use to run positively old school sessions. old school meaning sword and sorcery, magic that can be powerful, but never mundane, big bad monsters, salvage lands waiting for travel and discoveries, even the occasional wacky sci fi reference.
here's what i like (and i don't like) about the various games i am tinkering with.
like about OD&D: free stylish, rule light game, makes character creation QUICK, and introducing new players easy.
dislike about OD&D: the system needs reworking a bit to accomodate some of the things i like (skill system? more complex monster mechanics?).
like about d20: i LOVE the way monsters are treated. i don't usually like feats, but i love them on monsters. if i had to spend 3 hours creating a new monsters with the d20 rules, so be it. i class that as pure fun.
dislike about d20: too many options for the players. too many feats, too many spells, too many free combinations. feats wouldn't be too bad if tailored on classes much more... don't get me wrong, i like classes, and having options. but too much is too much. the way i feel is that there should be many more restrcitions.
also i don't like the amount of assumption that has been built up in the game (especially about money and equipment at any given level).
i would like to change some of the classes. clerics, sorcerers, and rogues, and barbarians. some to a minor extent, some profoundly. the is too much magic and magical powers going on, in my opinion.
finally, i hate the fact that nowhere in the rules it is clearly stated that the DM has the power to disallow whatever he wants. this has, in my experience, caused a lot a whining. i want to play, not to listen complaints about how unfair it is that i don't allow another half drow/ half daemon, assassin/paladin...
like about hackmaster: i can use with almost no conversion all the stuff i have for AD&D. that ALONE makes me want to play it.
the monster treatment, while not as cool as in d20, is better than in AD&D and D&D.
dislike about hackmaster: there are a lot of rules (some of them quite clumsy), but i can be nice and ignore them, as opposed to be horrible and enforce restrictions!
it is really not immeditate to learn, for newcomers. the rules have no unified mechanic at all.
so, in your opinion, what should i do?
option#1: keep d20, do some work to on the classes, add new ones, add options that i like from various books, enforce some restrictions, make the feats more palatable for me (like restricting feat trees or types to some classes) and live happy with the monsters
option#2: keep OD&D, reworking parts of it, adding loads of new classes (for allowing dwarfs and elves and halflings to be clerics, wizards, and so on, AND to allow other races, too), adding a skill system of sorts, and putting the monsters together with the d20 system
option#3: keep Hackmaster, throw out what you don't like, mining the d20 D&D for class features i like, building new classes over those ideas. as for the monsters, the d20 D&D monster creation process might be usefull as well, but then i would have to converst things to hackmaster. not much of a problem, maybe.
option#4: your option here.
is it really that indispensable to convert things between one system and another? i am very much able to wig things on the fly, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to ignore the differences between a d20 monster and a OD&D one, in theory. i'm more concerned with the power level problem (an orc in OD&D is way less powerful than one in the d20 system).
as for castles and crusades (i know somebody is going to suggest it), i would love to try it... but apparently there are lots of typos in the current edition. as i am not a mother tongue, i would prefer to stay clear from anything that could mess with my english... maybe a new (corrected) edition is on its way?
blame the other commitments, blame changing city every other year, but i am afraid i have a bigger problem here. i don't have a system of choice anymore.
when i started to play, there was only D&D to me. then AD&D second edtion came along and i loved it. sure, i was still happy to GM other games (namely Call of Cthulhu or, later, vampire), but i knew that, when i really wanted to get down to business, i was playing AD&D.
i didn't mind the complexities of the system, or the holes in the rules, or the amount of (sometimes crappy) optional material out there, mainly because i had the luck of having 4 other DMs in my gaming group (totalling 5 people, excluding me), who kind of shared my style of gaming, and didn't abuse the rules or created too big a fuss over inconsistency X.
then the 3rd edition came along. man, i loved it. i saw that it wasn't too backwards compatible, but, hell, there were so many good things...
but i became disillusioned when i first changed my city. wizards were putting out books i didn't really like, there were a lot of crappy third party products around (and i couldn't find an autoritative source for reviews), and the sheer amount of rules made very difficult to introduce new players ("ok, in order to play, you have to read this 300 page tome..."). the psionic handbook and the epic level handbook were the last two nails in the coffin.
i switched to GURPS. lots of rules, true... but there's GURPS lite with a nice summary. i loved the system and i still do (in fact, i think it's my system of choice for all the modern time adventures and the multigenre ones). but fantasy didn't feel the same with it. i longed for my old game style.
to make an old story short, i am trying a way to bring together the best parts of the systems i like together. i would like you to help me with some advice, or insight, or idea, or what has you.
a very important point: this is NOT a thread where you can educate the rest of the reading public of why such game (or such edition, or such rule) sucks, or is utterly brilliant. i don't care for that. you are allowed to start your own thread for that.
also, please, do not make a point to comment too much on my tastes. if you say: "why don't you like this? this can be worked like this and that, so that in the end, blah blah blah" that's alright! if you just go: "man, you don't like rule Y? i think you suck!" that doesn't add ANYTHING to the discussion, and feels like a personal attack (my tastes can seem stupid to you, but i can't do anything about it!)
let's start, then!!!
i want a fantasy game that i can use to run positively old school sessions. old school meaning sword and sorcery, magic that can be powerful, but never mundane, big bad monsters, salvage lands waiting for travel and discoveries, even the occasional wacky sci fi reference.
here's what i like (and i don't like) about the various games i am tinkering with.
like about OD&D: free stylish, rule light game, makes character creation QUICK, and introducing new players easy.
dislike about OD&D: the system needs reworking a bit to accomodate some of the things i like (skill system? more complex monster mechanics?).
like about d20: i LOVE the way monsters are treated. i don't usually like feats, but i love them on monsters. if i had to spend 3 hours creating a new monsters with the d20 rules, so be it. i class that as pure fun.
dislike about d20: too many options for the players. too many feats, too many spells, too many free combinations. feats wouldn't be too bad if tailored on classes much more... don't get me wrong, i like classes, and having options. but too much is too much. the way i feel is that there should be many more restrcitions.
also i don't like the amount of assumption that has been built up in the game (especially about money and equipment at any given level).
i would like to change some of the classes. clerics, sorcerers, and rogues, and barbarians. some to a minor extent, some profoundly. the is too much magic and magical powers going on, in my opinion.
finally, i hate the fact that nowhere in the rules it is clearly stated that the DM has the power to disallow whatever he wants. this has, in my experience, caused a lot a whining. i want to play, not to listen complaints about how unfair it is that i don't allow another half drow/ half daemon, assassin/paladin...
like about hackmaster: i can use with almost no conversion all the stuff i have for AD&D. that ALONE makes me want to play it.
the monster treatment, while not as cool as in d20, is better than in AD&D and D&D.
dislike about hackmaster: there are a lot of rules (some of them quite clumsy), but i can be nice and ignore them, as opposed to be horrible and enforce restrictions!
it is really not immeditate to learn, for newcomers. the rules have no unified mechanic at all.
so, in your opinion, what should i do?
option#1: keep d20, do some work to on the classes, add new ones, add options that i like from various books, enforce some restrictions, make the feats more palatable for me (like restricting feat trees or types to some classes) and live happy with the monsters
option#2: keep OD&D, reworking parts of it, adding loads of new classes (for allowing dwarfs and elves and halflings to be clerics, wizards, and so on, AND to allow other races, too), adding a skill system of sorts, and putting the monsters together with the d20 system
option#3: keep Hackmaster, throw out what you don't like, mining the d20 D&D for class features i like, building new classes over those ideas. as for the monsters, the d20 D&D monster creation process might be usefull as well, but then i would have to converst things to hackmaster. not much of a problem, maybe.
option#4: your option here.
is it really that indispensable to convert things between one system and another? i am very much able to wig things on the fly, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to ignore the differences between a d20 monster and a OD&D one, in theory. i'm more concerned with the power level problem (an orc in OD&D is way less powerful than one in the d20 system).
as for castles and crusades (i know somebody is going to suggest it), i would love to try it... but apparently there are lots of typos in the current edition. as i am not a mother tongue, i would prefer to stay clear from anything that could mess with my english... maybe a new (corrected) edition is on its way?
