Any D20 games in which magic has bad side effects?

Green Knight

First Post
In most D&D games, magic is just a neutral force. What I'm wondering is this: Is there a D20 system in which there are CONSEQUENCES for using magic? For instance, I was watching Buffy, and it's been mentioned that the use of magic always has consequences. So is there a D20 game out there with just such a magic system? In which the use of magic can do harm as well as good? Bring unintentional harm? Corrupt the user? Etc? Thanks for the help.
 

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d20 CoC

Check out d20 Call of Cthulhu.

You can suffer temporary (sometimes even permanent) stat loss, take subdual damage, awaken or draw the attention of evil forces, and, oh yeah, go TOTALLY INSANE.
 

JESawyer

First Post
Has anyone made a d20 Nehwon setting? Black Magic eventually screws you up pretty badly, IIRC. There are also Dark Sun's defilers (drain life from the plants around them to cast spells).
 

Xarlen

First Post
Chaos magic has a chance of killing you or just doing a Lot of Bad Things to you. This is Mongoose Publishing's stuff.

Also, Mongoose Publishing's Necromancy has a neat little thing. They're called Negative Energy feats. Basicly allows you to do things like channel negative energy to animate dead by touch, or do a killing touch (Roll a d6 up to caster level, if their hps are lower then that, they die), things like that.

However, everytime you do that, you need to make a fort save (DC 10). If you fail (Usually, you fail once), you roll on a 1d20 table to see what is the effect. You could grow a taloned hand made of bone, require to eat the bodies of the dead, be a carrier for a disease that won't go away, scare children and animals, take Str, Con, or Charisma loss, take only half from healing spells, etc.

Really neat.
 

Nightfall

Sage of the Scarred Lands
I think some epic level spells might...but I really think the best one for such things is detailed in the RLCS.
 

Green Knight

First Post
Re: d20 CoC

Pillars of Hercules said:
Check out d20 Call of Cthulhu.

You can suffer temporary (sometimes even permanent) stat loss, take subdual damage, awaken or draw the attention of evil forces, and, oh yeah, go TOTALLY INSANE.

Been meaning to get this book for the longest time. Looks like I've got extra reason, now, to get my hands on it.
 

zorlag

First Post
zorlag

D20 Wheel of Time also has some negative consequences for excessive magic use. Burning out (losing magical abilities) and getting insane (male caster problem).

Z.
 

Lord Ravinous

First Post
Back in 2e my Necromancer aquired a disease from channeling massive ammounts of negative energy which caused my body to literally wither away, and slowly lose my essence/lifeforce. The DM did this (IMO) to discourage me from Animating so many skeletons and zombies, well it worked to an extent, because I was so fanaticly preoccupied with curing my character that I lost track of everything else...and I mean EVERYTHING!!!
 
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Lord Ravinous said:
Back in 2e my Necromancer aquired a disease from channeling massive ammounts of negative energy which caused my body to literally wither away, and slowly lose my essence/lifeforce. The DM did this (IMO) to discourage me from Animating so many skeletons and zombies, well it worked to an extent, because I was so fanaticly preoccupied with curing my character that I lost track of everything else...and I mean EVERYTHING!!!

Sounds like something from Stephen Kings "Thinner" :)
 

corndemon

First Post
Originally posted by Green Knight
In most D&D games, magic is just a neutral force. What I'm wondering is this: Is there a D20 system in which there are CONSEQUENCES for using magic?

The Sovereign Stone system uses a mechanic that causes fortitude saves while casting to avoid temporary hit point damage caused by the physical stress of channeling magical energy through ones body.

For instance, I was watching Buffy, and it's been mentioned that the use of magic always has consequences.

This comes from a common Pagan tradition, sometimes known, among other things, as the threefold or trifold law, which basically says that anything you cause upon another with your magic will be returned upon you three times over.

IMO, this belief doesn't work in a D&D/D20 game unless you have seriously revamped the magic system. Who in their right mind would toss out a 6 dice fireball if they were going to have to take 3 of them in return.

Of course, you could say that the trifold law works metaphorically in your world, which is how I understand it to work in Pagan circles. So, if I cast a 6 dice fireball at someone, I wouldn't literally have an 18 dice fireball handed back to me, but would eventually (such things are not immediate, and will likely happen at the worst possible moment, showing, imo, the Goddess' sense of irony and humor) suffer something just as bad, from my point of view. This could be cool, but the mechanics for it in game seem elusive. I far prefer something like the Sovereign Stone system, which is not as inspired or cool, but a lot more playable.

Also cool is the "test of wizardry" concept, best exemplified in the Dragonlance novels. Basically, before you can become a mage, you have to undergo a series of horrifying and physically ruinous ordeals and tests. After you've passed the test, you can cast magic without consequence, but you've paid a substantial price to get there.

Lastly, you could adopt a system akin to that used in Ravenloft, where the caster must make saving throws (probably willpower in this case) whenever she uses her magic or begin to slide down the path to evil. This works best if you have a set restriction in your game against evil PCs, dooming them to NPCdom if they ever cross the NE or CE threshold, or saying that there is a virtual 10th, irredeemable alignment on the grid, and if a PC slips to that level they are out of play and will serve the DM as a nasty NPC villain. MAKE SURE THE SPELLCASTER'S PLAYERS KNOW THIS AND AGREE IN ADVANCE! It's not likely to be well recieved if you spring it on them in play.

What I would do is require a will save (DC 10 + 2xSpellLevel) every time a spell is cast. For every 3 or 5 failures, the PC slips one step down the ladder (LG to LN to LE to NE to CE to NPC for example).

What you could do to sweeten the pot and give the player a little temptation to inspire them to roleplay their character's temptation better is offer what Ravenloft called "Dark Gifts". As the PC slips down the road to arcane damnation, they could gain a meta-feat everytime their alignment changes. This feat should be chosen by the DM and need not be particularly useful (giving quicken spell to a 2nd level caster for example).
 
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