better gaming through chemistry

jdrakeh · Nov 1, 2005

If such a product existed, I would champion it. The vast majority of players (or, for that matter, gamers) that I know, both online and off...

Have zero understanding of what genre is, let alone what playing a 'playing a genre appropriate character' or 'acting in genre' might mean.
Draw no distinction between out of character knowledge and in-character knowledge, nor do many fully understand the difference between the two states of OOC and IC.
Have an all or nothing mind set when it comes to rules, charging that you must use all of the rules in a game (including those implicitly labeled as optional) or none of them.

If everybody involved in a game is ignorant of genre conventions, the separation of OOC and IC status, and similar things - great fun will be had. The problem is that many publishers have taken it upon themselves to inform the GM, but not other players. This upsets the balance.

I can directly trace most of my frustration with games, gaming, and gamers back to the point in time that I developed a firm grasp on genre, genre conventions, story continuity, pacing, etc - and my fellow players did not. At all.

All of a sudden, I saw the potential for dramtic mysteries, epic romance amongst the stars, pulp adventure in the vein of 1930s radio serials, and so on. My fellow players still couldn't see past their characters as simple stat blocks or conduits for wish fulfillment.

Me: "I've got a great idea for a game about masked avengers in 1930s New York!"

Them: "Cool! That means we get to kill gangsters!"

Me: "You can play heroes in the vein of The Shadow, Doc Savage, or even Batman!"

Them: "Sweet! We'll play a group of robotic ninja!"

And so on... pretty much every conversation about a game ended up like that. Of the fifty or so gamers that I spent a long time with in Topeka, only my friends Norm, Roger, and Lenny seemed to have a firm grasp on genre and stuff... and, unsurprisingly, they were the other 'go to guys' for GMing (and all shared my frustrations).

Save the sanity of myself and others like me. Please, please, please re-balance the scales. Teach players the importance of genre conventions, dispel the fallacy that the written rule is Gospel, explain the difference between assuming a role and moving a pawn on a game board. Do these things and I shall follow you to the ends of the Earth!

Henry · Nov 1, 2005

jim pinto said:
...i don't believe munchkin players have anything to offer, and by default the DM is not obligated to offer him anything in return. he can go play zelda and be the antisocial power-gamer he wants to be against his xbox and not ruin anyone's fun... and here's where the problem lies...

the DM can't be expect to:

a) write a story
b) detail NPCs, maps, locations, etc.
c) administer the game (maintain the flow, know the rules, have everyone, involved)
d) make things interesting

AND

e) put up with everyone's nonsense

I know where you're coming from, as from your comments I'm guessing I'm a DM similar in style to yourself. However, I'm also a firm believer in Robin Laws' ideas on "what makes gamers tick," and I recognize there's a bunch of different reasons people sit down at that table, power gamers ("munchkins") included.

I believe that the book Robin's Laws to Good Gamemastering, for that reason, is a great book for ALL gamers, players and DM's alike. The best advice that I would give in any "better Player" book is:

COMMUNICATE.

COMMUNICATE.

FREAKIN' COMMUNICATE.

First of all, be sure your DM reads the same book (that or the first chapter of the DMG2). Then, tell your DM what you like. Tell him after-game that you're not strong on puzzles, or that combat gets your blood going, or that you love it when a plan comes together.

Tell the DM if you love intricate stories, or love playing an effective character, or just plain love the feeling you get when you add that new level to your character sheet.

Make sure you know what style of DM you have. He's a player too! If the DM loves combat, and he puts in an encounter that begs to be solved by violence, oblige him. If he loves an intricate puzzle, let him know if it was just inscrutable to you after-game, so he can tone them down accordingly. Is he a story teller, as I partly am and Jim Pinto seems to be falling under too? Be sure to pick up on any hooks dropped, and try to supply a few of your own. Don't be afraid of a background as if it's some sort of noose, but use to give the DM a little less prep time, as a favor to him.

Just as Robin's Laws drives home like a piledriver that LISTENING is the #1 DM skill, if I wrote a player's book, Communication is the #1 lesson I'd sledgehammer home.

Zappo · Nov 1, 2005

Damn. Reading the title, I thought this thread would advise me on what kind of drugs I should use to enjoy gaming more.

Janx · Nov 1, 2005

Some useful sections for your proposed book would be:
how to identify the GM's plot
Why you should find a reason to go along with the GM's plot
Making a character that fits in
Cause and Effect in an RPG
Goals for your PC
Anti-social gaming behaviors to avoid
Making the game better

Janx

jdrakeh · Nov 1, 2005

Janx said:
Cause and Effect in an RPG

Yes. This is a must - too many players disassociate actions from consequences (and contrary to popular belief, rigid rule enforcement doesn't discourage this any). This is a product of, not necessarily 'coddling' GMs as many ignorant people suggest, but a result of predictable GMs.

JoeGKushner · Nov 1, 2005

Have you started a similiar thread over at RPG.net? It'd be interesting to see what they, the gamers of many systems so to speak, take on it.

One thing that should be noted though, is that the GM has got to do a lot more work in terms of bringing his vision to the players. If one player hasn't seen any movies on the Shadow, the Phantom, etc... or read any of those books and the GM says he's going to run a Pulp genre and that player doesn't get it, whose fault is that?

A player shouldn't be expected to know every genre or every element of every game ever produced. It's one of the reasons why I think older gamers and younger gamers have some... interesting discussions as to what is "classic" fantasy. For older ones, it tends to be Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, etc... For younger ones, it's Terry Brooks and David Eddings. And for their respective ages, they're probably both correct!

I agree that lots of communication is one of the key ingredients in making sure that the players and GM are on the same page.

jdrakeh · Nov 1, 2005

JoeGKushner said:
If one player hasn't seen any movies on the Shadow, the Phantom, etc... or read any of those books and the GM says he's going to run a Pulp genre and that player doesn't get it, whose fault is that?

Oddly, I never had that happen - my players were always familiar with examples of a given genre, but didn't understand what a genre was, what tropes were, or how either effected a game. The problem that I had was players who viewed genre in terms of setting, not character - genre was never a reason for their characters to act differently, so said characters ended up being the same ass-kicking, wish fulfillment, machines in period garb.

DamionW · Nov 1, 2005

I like the idea, but I imagine it'd be hard to design for the people who need it. As I see it "bad" players are either new to the hobby, emotionally immature, or firmly set in their bad play styles as what works for them. If they're new to the hobby, they have a lot of basic mechanics to learn in the first place. Unless you carefully write such a book to not be overwhelming at first glance, it might scare them off and feel like "home work" which I doubt many new gamers would enjoy when they've come to play a game. For the emotionally immature, that either will go away with age or not go away at all, but I'd be surprised if reading a book would suddenly show marked improvement. Then for the dreaded munchkins, that is what they play the game for. They want to min/max in ways that zelda or other games don't, and trash the boundaries of the virtual reality that computer RPGs confine them to. It'd be difficult to supress those instincts and the inherent fun factor in them just to develop a plotline which doesn't motivate them in the first place. That sucks to hear, but I still think it's fairly accurate. I do like the idea and I'd give a well written book on this subject a good read, but then I'm already a storyteller playstyle, and I like cooperating with a GM if it increases the game's fun. I think most of the people responding to this thread are already at the "good" to near-"good" state you desire. So how do you target this book to be picked up by the "bad" gamers, read, and utilized?