The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

Galfridus · Nov 8, 2005

I'm looking for advice / opinions on a paladin-related issue.

The paladin (married, with a pregnant wife) was called down to the street in the middle of the night by a messenger: a halfling who said he had a message but then hemmed and hawed about what it was -- then tried to scamper off. The paladin grabbed him -- and then learned that just after he left his room, someone had assaulted his wife. The paladin asked a couple more questions, at which point it became clear that the halfling was involved in the assault. The paladin then attempted to kill the halfling (and may have succeeded; I ended the session at that point, as it was a good cliffhanger).

Obviously this is not on the list of Approved Paladin Activities. What would you do to the paladin in question?

jdrakeh · Nov 8, 2005

Galfridus said:
Obviously this is not on the list of Approved Paladin Activities. What would you do to the paladin in question?

Depends, really - what god does the Paladin serve? If it isn't one that condones vengeance, I'd strip him of his Paladin status as the act would likely be an affront to his god. Sure, it took place in a moment of passion, but one of the Paladin's duties (typically) is to remain true to the tenets of his faith in such circumstances - that's what seperates him from the normal guy on the street. If murder runs contrary to the established tenets of his god's will, then I'd strip him of his status and not restore it until he serves pennance for his crime (be that pennance a quest, punishment, or otherwise) and wins favor with his god again.

diaglo · Nov 8, 2005

give him his first level in Blackguard. he gave into the Dark Side of the Force.

subdual damage on the halfling would've been kosher. but killing him ain't kewl.

LostSoul · Nov 8, 2005

I'd ask the player what he thinks should happen to his character.

If he doesn't think anything bad should happen, and you do, and you enforce some kind of nerfing of his abilities, get ready for a pissed-off player.

If he does think something bad should happen, let him decide what it is.

If he consistently does things you consider Evil (or just not LG) and doesn't want anything bad to happen to him, ask him why he chose to play a Paladin. If it's because of the kewl powers, whatever, just ignore the Paladin flavour. If it's because he wants to be a holy avenger, go with that and let him dispense Justice however he wants. His actions become holy writ.

Unless the two of you really hashed out what a Paladin can do, and what he can't, you have to be careful. Deciding that the Paladin did something you thought was wrong and nerfing his abilities for it means (to me) that the Paladin has to do whatever you think he should do. At which point his choices become limited by what you think, and he's not really playing his character how he wants.

In the specific example, since the halfing was part of the assault, he's fair game in my book.

StupidSmurf · Nov 8, 2005

If, on the other hand, his god condones, even encourages, the destruction of evil, then I'd say no penalties need be levied. If that little SOB was in on it, he's evil, pure and simple.

Peter Gibbons · Nov 8, 2005

Galfridus said:
Obviously this is not on the list of Approved Paladin Activities. What would you do to the paladin in question?

I must have missed something "obvious." How exactly does this violate the paladin's code?

wuyanei · Nov 8, 2005

It is a paladin's duty to smite down evil. It is NOT his duty to redeem all evil, although if evil can be redeemed then then would be even better. I fail to see how destroying an obvious accomplice to assault against a pregnant lady violates the paladin's code.

jdrakeh · Nov 8, 2005

Peter Gibbons said:
I must have missed something "obvious." How exactly does this violate the paladin's code?

Because, in most instances, cold-blooded murder circumvents law. Note that Paladins aren't typically supposed to serve as judge, jury, and executioner in instances where an established legal code and court system exist. If Paladin's run willy-nilly around the law whenever it suits them, it makes them criminals (specifically vigilantes).

Which reminds me... OP, if a penalty exists for murder in the city where this took place, I think that there'a good chance the Paladin will be arrested (or at least sought out by local authorities) and forced to stand trial.

Stormborn · Nov 8, 2005

The fact that the Paladin asked questions and then decided to kill the halfling mitigates any potential violation of his oath (if there is one at all). He didn't just lash out becuase he suspected the halfling, he determined that the messanger was an accesory to the assualt. In modern terms that seems a bit rash, but in the standard DnD world I would think that it would be justified.

So, if it is determined that he overstepped his bounds a little - then he goes on probation I think and does some penance but doesn't loose his abilities.

And I agree, if he is a paladin of a god like Cuthbert then what he did was not only just it was to be expected.

wuyanei · Nov 8, 2005

Well, then you interpretation for a paladin differs from mine, jdrakeh.

IMO, a paladin is not a glorified police officer. A paladin is invested by church and god with the aurthority to destroy the enemies of Good. If in his judgment an evil must be smote, then it is his right AND duty to smite that evil. Now, he must be careful in excercising his judgement, for if he judges wrongly his god will punish him by removing his abilities, at the least. However, that is not so the case here.