Decline of RPG sales - Page 3
+ Log in or register to post
Page 3 of 24 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 470
  1. #41
    Unattainable Ideal COPPER SUBSCRIBER
    Gallant (Lvl 3)

    barsoomcore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ahhh, Barsoom...
    Posts
    5,948
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block barsoomcore


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Sejs
    Man, has it been 15 years already? I seem to recall this exact same kind of banter back in the days of 2nd edition...
    Actually, it's been about a week and a half. Or maybe it just seems like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BelenUmeria
    ...the hobby needs a organization that remains untied to the publishers that is capable of generating longterm interest in the hobby.
    Gee, how did I know this was coming? Let me guess, you think there should be an RPG Society or some such thing.

    You know, I have so much material right now that it would literally take me years to make use of it all. To run an Iron Kingdoms game, an Exalted game, a Call of Cthulhu game, a d20 Modern game, an Iron Lords of Jupiter game, not to mention EPIC Modern or DINO-PIRATES OF NINJA ISLAND (or whatever JPL's next brainwave is), is going to take me years to do.

    I still buy stuff, of course (I'm weak), but if every d20 publisher on the planet disappeared tomorrow, my gaming would carry on just fine, thank you.

    Especially since, as a d20 publisher myself, I'd presumably be off with all the rest, and we'd have nothing to do but game all day.

    But seriously, associating industry profitability with enjoyment of the hobby just isn't logical. The one is unconnected to the other. Selling RPGs is NEVER going to be very profitable. RPGs are hard to explain, appeal to very few people, are expensive to produce, and are difficult to market and sell. Every now and then some innovation will spark a resurgence and there'll be a rush of profitability, and for the top producers there's probably some return on investment, but it's always going to be small, and it's always going to be risky.

    But the games will always be around. And all you really need is some imagination, a lot of time and few things to kickstart your head. Heck, I started my Barsoom campaign without ANY products whatsoever. I made up some rules and let fly. I can pretty easily do that again. Gaming will always be available, it'll always be fun, and I'll never have trouble finding players.

    Industry != Hobby

  2. #42
    Member
    Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Posts
    5,071
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Edena_of_Neith


    Friend+
    D&D 3.75?

    Who says the Hobby is diminishing, anyhow?

  3. #43
    Member
    Novice (Lvl 1)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    103
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block tf360


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Glyfair
    My understanding from one of my local FLGS owners is that it seems the poker boom is starting to go down. People are still playing, but it's reached the point where sales of poker products are way, way down.
    One important fact to consider is that poker supplies are no longer the exclusive domain of FLGS or other niche shops. They're sold practically everywhere, from high-end gift shops to supermarkets.

  4. #44
    Member
    Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)

    Kanegrundar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Blue Springs, MO
    Posts
    2,266
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Kanegrundar


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by philreed
    But they are taking up valuable space and make it harder for people new to PDFs to know what is worth spending money on. And we can't forget about the people that buy a few PDFs, hate them, and swear off of PDFs. This exact problem has seriously impacted the M&M Superlink license -- I regularly encounter people that hated some early purchases and refuse to buy anything for Mutants & Masterminds that isn't published by Green Ronin.
    Isn't this less of a problem now at RPGNow? I mean with the small publishers with their own site.

    As far as the problem with some people swearing off pdfs after one purchase...well, that's dumb. PDF's aren't the problem, crappy product is the problem. I've been burned a couple times with some bad Superlink product, but I still buy from the guys I know and trust to put out quality material (like Ronin Arts, RPGObjects, Blue Devil, LPJ Design, etc.). All it's going to take to win those guys back is a solid pdf product that gets great word of mouth. With more and more publishers turning to pdfs (this is a good thing, IMO) it's going to be harder for gamers that want new material to ignore the format. It may take a little time, but things are moving steadily in that direction.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by buzz
    WotC is pretty much the only entity with enough resources to have any impact. Maybe WW, too. A non-profit "Society for the Furtherance of Gaming" is an unrealistic hope, IMO. I'm not sure it's even necessary.
    It already exists. The Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games, CAR-PGa, has been around for years. Paul Cardwell, the founder, is a font of information about early RPGs and a tireless advocate doing more good on his own to set the story straight about RPGs than the average gamer. I was in an APA with him years ago, and he's a great guy. That said, have I had the money to send him or do much to support his work? Sadly, no. Which is probably the story of most gamers who even think about it.

  6. #46
    Member
    Cutpurse (Lvl 5)

    buzz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    6,923
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    I Defended The Walls!

    Block buzz


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Varianor Abroad
    It already exists. The Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games, CAR-PGa, has been around for years. Paul Cardwell, the founder, is a font of information about early RPGs and a tireless advocate doing more good on his own to set the story straight about RPGs than the average gamer. I was in an APA with him years ago, and he's a great guy. That said, have I had the money to send him or do much to support his work? Sadly, no. Which is probably the story of most gamers who even think about it.
    Ah, yes. I think I've been to their site in the past. Great collection of literature.

    But what do they do on a day-to-day basis?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by philreed
    I used to produce a healthy amount of free stuff. I stopped when I realized that only 1 in 1000 people took the time to e-mail a simple "thanks" to me. Even the free stuff I've released this year has generated very, very few "thank you" messages.
    Most of the free items have released have gotten worse notices, and less attention, than things I paid for.

    Its odd, but its my personal experience nontheless.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by buzz
    Ditto when said persons report positive and supportive data. It's just a different group of ragers.

    EDIT: Joe beat me to it. There's also some irony I could point out (not Joe-related), but that wouldn't be particularly productive.
    Actually, those "ragers" are the pros you theoretically wishes would chime in, like Rasyr. At this point, I doubt that you or Joe have any real interest in hearing what anyone who works in gaming has to say that doesn't support your current positions, as especially after looking at the last time Joe started threads like this, wherin he yet again ignored anyone pros who didn't tell him how well things were going.

    But hey, I see you folks are now going 2 for 2 by telling Phil Reed he doesn't know what he's talking about either, so none of us should get our hopes up, should we?

    I keep thinking I should get a colleage to start an account here are parrot the whole, "The Industry is doing great and there's enough room for all the small press outfits!" line people are so fond of, and see how he/she is instantly acclaimed as being informative and wise.

    Enh. I'll be over with Tim.

  9. #49
    Oh -- cooperatuve promotion of the hobby is supposed to be one of GAMA's jobs, isn't it?

  10. #50
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)



    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Huntington, WV
    Posts
    358
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Kristivas


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjorimir
    You must not visit the associated message boards of those MMOs then. There is nothing but rants about nerf this nerf that. People have been crying for nerfs in MMOs so long it goes back to when Zug wanted Roog's rock nerfed because it was shinier than his. Or what I'd call the, "Hi, I'm scissors, paper is balanced, nerf rock" posts.

    Oh, I visit them, but while I'm playing, I don't have to stop over such an arguement: We're going to run over and attack General Drakkisath.. and the whole game stops because the Warrior's player goes: "Guys, I don't think his AoE is supposed to do that! Don't I get a save?! I didn't get to roll!" Then, the priest goes "Yeah, that was way too much damage, this must be broken."

    No, his ass doesn't get to roll and that AoE *IS* supposed to do that. You just deal with it and continue, because it's a gaming system with set rules as you're playing . It's not a few people's personal interpritation of a system.

    It might change later after some board whining, but it will never change mid-play.

  11. #51
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Belen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,251
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Belen


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    Oh -- cooperatuve promotion of the hobby is supposed to be one of GAMA's jobs, isn't it?
    Yes, but GAMA is a joke. They focus on the retailers, but never seem to find there tail end where is concerns anything else. Besides, GAMA promotes all games and I do not think that RPGs are much of a concern for them any longer.

  12. #52
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Belen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,251
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Belen


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    Actually, those "ragers" are the pros you theoretically wishes would chime in, like Rasyr. At this point, I doubt that you or Joe have any real interest in hearing what anyone who works in gaming has to say that doesn't support your current positions, as especially after looking at the last time Joe started threads like this, wherin he yet again ignored anyone pros who didn't tell him how well things were going.

    But hey, I see you folks are now going 2 for 2 by telling Phil Reed he doesn't know what he's talking about either, so none of us should get our hopes up, should we?

    I keep thinking I should get a colleage to start an account here are parrot the whole, "The Industry is doing great and there's enough room for all the small press outfits!" line people are so fond of, and see how he/she is instantly acclaimed as being informative and wise.

    Enh. I'll be over with Tim.
    That's because no one from Steve Jackson, WOTC, or WW seems to be posting about the issue. And John is correct about game store owners. Even WOTC RPG orders have been halved in my area lately. The gamestores that are managing to stay afloat are diversifying away from RPGs and even TCGs. The only TCG that seem to be selling is Magic.

  13. #53
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Belen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,251
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Belen


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by barsoomcore
    Gee, how did I know this was coming? Let me guess, you think there should be an RPG Society or some such thing.

    You know, I have so much material right now that it would literally take me years to make use of it all. To run an Iron Kingdoms game, an Exalted game, a Call of Cthulhu game, a d20 Modern game, an Iron Lords of Jupiter game, not to mention EPIC Modern or DINO-PIRATES OF NINJA ISLAND (or whatever JPL's next brainwave is), is going to take me years to do.
    Fine....let's just imagine that the concern does not revolve around you or even many ENWorlders. Maybe I want my future kids to be able to find a D&D group etc. You have established that you do not agree with me on several occasions, so why bother posting?

  14. #54
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)

    JoeGKushner's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Posts
    11,621
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block JoeGKushner


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnNephew
    I participate in a private industry forum where there are monthly polls on retailer sales. Month after month after month this year, the numbers have been weighted on the downside.
    Which I wasn't arguing with. Even in the downside though, there are still publishers doing well even if they are in the minority or are printing to demand (similiar to manufacturing with a JIT, just in time, system). and selling out, even if it's of a smaller print run.

    Which still doesn't count the big dog, WoTC, claiming that they've had their best year ever, without miniatures.

    Perhaps D&D is it's own industry with the rest of the companies falling in a way distant second.

  15. #55
    Member
    Cutpurse (Lvl 5)

    buzz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    6,923
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    I Defended The Walls!

    Block buzz


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    But hey, I see you folks are...
    I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from lumping me in with any nebulous "you" you wish to discredit. I'm just pointing out that the disbelief goes both ways.

    I've also said nothing in reference to Mr. Reed. If anything, I'm eager to hear what he says.
    Last edited by buzz; Wednesday, 16th November, 2005 at 04:38 PM.

  16. #56
    Member
    Cutpurse (Lvl 5)

    buzz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    6,923
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    I Defended The Walls!

    Block buzz


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by BelenUmeria
    Maybe I want my future kids to be able to find a D&D group etc.
    As long as WotC is doing well, this should not be a problem. Assuming that the industry is in threat of dying, WotC, or whomever ends up owning D&D, will survive. Just be sure to teach your kids how to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelenUmeria
    You have established that you do not agree with me on several occasions, so why bother posting?
    IMO, becasue barsoomcore has a proven track record of knowing what time it is, IYKWIM.

  17. #57
    Member
    Magsman (Lvl 14)

    Hobo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Michigan S. S. R.
    Posts
    19,153
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Hobo


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by BelenUmeria
    You have established that you do not agree with me on several occasions, so why bother posting?
    I'm not following where you're going with that line of thought. If someone disagrees with you they shouldn't post? Your debatable statements should be let to stand without contesting?

    I always appreciate it when Corey posts. He's one of my favorite posters. The only times I don't find his posts insightful and interesting is when they are funny and interesting. If I had to make a list of people that I only know online but I'd like to meet and hang out with in real life, he'd be near the top of that list. Especially if it means playing in his stewardess game, naturally.

    In other words, I'm very glad he bothers posting. And I tend to agree with him 100% in this regard. The Gaming Hobby != the Gaming Industry, and I'm fine with that.

  18. #58
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)

    JoeGKushner's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Posts
    11,621
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block JoeGKushner


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by BelenUmeria
    That's because no one from Steve Jackson, WOTC, or WW seems to be posting about the issue. And John is correct about game store owners. Even WOTC RPG orders have been halved in my area lately. The gamestores that are managing to stay afloat are diversifying away from RPGs and even TCGs. The only TCG that seem to be selling is Magic.
    An interesting thing about store orders is that WoTC noted that more than half their sales come from nontraditional venues. I imagine that's probably things like amazon,buy,walmart, and other online sellers.

  19. #59
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Belen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,251
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Belen


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Dyal
    I'm not following where you're going with that line of thought. If someone disagrees with you they shouldn't post? Your debatable statements should be let to stand without contesting?
    Nope, I was refering to his disdain for my idea regarding an RPG society and decision to denigrate it every time I mention it anything like it. It's like me following him around complaining about his campaign world...constantly...every time he mentions it,

  20. #60
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Belen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,251
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Belen


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGKushner
    An interesting thing about store orders is that WoTC noted that more than half their sales come from nontraditional venues. I imagine that's probably things like amazon,buy,walmart, and other online sellers.
    I am sure that online retailers have hit the store orders hard, but that happened a while ago. They have had their orders cut in half recently, especially their preorders from people who want the book when it is released rather than waiting a month for amazon.

+ Log in or register to post
Page 3 of 24 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Proof D&D is in serious decline
    By Libramarian in forum Pathfinder, Starfinder, Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, OSR
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: Tuesday, 8th January, 2013, 11:15 PM
  2. D&D Minis on the Decline?
    By Ogrork the Mighty in forum Roleplaying Games General Discussion
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: Tuesday, 1st April, 2008, 03:10 AM
  3. Sales, sales, sales! It's good to be a gamer this Christmas!
    By Ghostwind in forum Roleplaying Games General Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Tuesday, 14th December, 2004, 10:28 PM
  4. the decline of reality TV
    By Chun-tzu in forum Miscellaneous Geek Talk & Media Lounge
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Friday, 22nd October, 2004, 03:28 AM
  5. Why iterative attacks decline?
    By Happy Monkey in forum Pathfinder, Starfinder, Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, OSR
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Tuesday, 5th November, 2002, 09:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •