Darkness & Dread vs. Heroes of Horror

TheAuldGrump · Nov 23, 2005

Crothian said:
So, anyone want to talk about the books? Just asking....

I wanted to, but pretty much the only thing I gained was a few names to add to my ignore list.

Even after being asked to quit it they kept on, about now I would like the thread closed.

The Auld Grump

Aus_Snow · Nov 23, 2005

That would be the worst of timing, as those who have been particularly offensive (unprovoked), have apparently said all they wish to say on those matters.

Therefore, as I was only responding to said offensiveness, I have also said all I have to say on those matters.

I hope that the thread can continue as it should have done all along.

Best wishes.

I'm A Banana · Nov 23, 2005

Distilled advice between the two books from above:

HoH is good if you're just adding a horror zing to a D&D game, while Darkness and Dread is good if you're in the mood to make a horror style system as the base for a fantasy game. Also good includes CoCd20 because it has great advice, and Grim Tales which is suitably dark and creepy.

mhacdebhandia · Nov 23, 2005

I think Heroes of Horror is actually very good at giving advice to DMs who want to a game of D&D with horror themes. Consider this a warm recommendation.

Crothian · Nov 23, 2005

I don't have HoH, but I do have Darkness and Dread. There have been some good zombie oriented games mostly for modern, but easily adaprtible to the fantasy genre. So, is there anything in HoH that would be useful for a zombie/undead apocolypse? Horror games are one thing, but does it give some focus to the horror campaign? That has always been more difficult in my eyes. Does it give specific advice for dealing with the character abilities? For instance the clerics ability to turn undead really make undead a little less frightening. Even if I use mobs of undead that have more then the cleric can possible turn, ACs and area effect spells, flying and other middle level strategies really negates the power of the zombies.

Now, I'm not so much looking for ways to handle this from other posters, I'm just more wondering if the book covers anything like this?

mhacdebhandia · Nov 23, 2005

I don't think there's specific advice on how to deal with such issues, but then I think solutions are fairly easy to come up with.

Advice tends to be more along the lines of crafting individual villains or groups of opponents with horrific agenda.

Psion · Nov 23, 2005

TheAuldGrump said:
Thanks Henry.

Back to the regularlly schedueled program:

So, unlike HoH Darkness & Dread (I would abreviate that as well, but the term D&D might be confusing...) changes some of the core rules, and includes PC classes that are somewhat weaker. I can understand that, though it is less useful for implimenting a horror scenario or three into an otherwise run of the mill Iron Kingdoms game, say. But better for running an all horror campaign.

It does spend a good amount of space on what it calls "Dark Fantasy" character classes. It's very much a homage of Warhammer classic (this was out before WH 2e). It even has a randomized class table.

But it does provide advice for using core classes as well.

How are the fear mechanics?

Sorry I didn't address this earlier, but I was at work and didn't rightly recall all the details. After refreshing myself on it, I can say it's pretty robust as far as fear rules I've seen go. It's pretty detailed but in play it seems easy to use; all creatures get a fear rating (FR) that defines the save DC of a fear check. The margin you miss the roll by determines the effect.

Madness is also accumulated from higher fear ratings.

The system has some of the same criteria as the classic CoC insanity system, but is mechanically new.

Psion · Nov 23, 2005

Crothian said:
I don't have HoH, but I do have Darkness and Dread. There have been some good zombie oriented games mostly for modern, but easily adaprtible to the fantasy genre. So, is there anything in HoH that would be useful for a zombie/undead apocolypse? Horror games are one thing, but does it give some focus to the horror campaign? That has always been more difficult in my eyes. Does it give specific advice for dealing with the character abilities?

No, not really. Darkness & Dread has more advice in the vein of altering character abilities. HoH has some advice about running games, setting variants, and new character options, but not really so much on altering what you already have.

satori01 · Nov 23, 2005

Aus_Snow said:
That would be the worst of timing, as those who have been particularly offensive (unprovoked), have apparently said all they wish to say on those matters.

I know I should listen to what my mother always said about not being able to say something nice about something, but I have to mention something.

I have participated at ENworld since it inception, since when it was Eric's alone. I have seen many a discussion get a bit heated, I have seen threads spin wildly out of control.

I frankly can not remember a poster go out of their way to out of hand dismiss anothers points, to cry foul, and be blind to the manner in which they are acting. Kudos to you Aus Snow, you get the Ruin Explorer prize for slavish devotion to arguing a person and not the point.

Sorry, I threw that in there, but when one see injustice and all...

It's funny to me but I do not think 1e D&D did the horror genre any better, then 3.5 and yet the first seminal D&D "horror" type module,
Ravenloft, in the hands of a good DM was very horrific.

Horror to me boils down to Personal interactions with a Entity or Force that works differently then the world should. D&D zombies are Night of the Living Dead zombies, the problem is D&D characters are not like us. To get an effect like Night of the Living Dead, you have to change the rules a bit.

Crothian · Nov 23, 2005

Psion said:
No, not really. Darkness & Dread has more advice in the vein of altering character abilities. HoH has some advice about running games, setting variants, and new character options, but not really so much on altering what you already have.

Okay. I wasn't really looking for altering abilities but dealing with character's abilities in campaigns of horror that are way different then the standard fantasy game.

Is the book more oriented for DM's or players?