Covering vagabond

spot said:

Grazzt, your right, but i blured that line to create my npc bad-guy, aas i wanted a creature that could be any - where at any - time, and able to reside in some-one that the pc's wouldn't want to kill.

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Gotcha. I am not sure a template accomplishes that purpose very well, but then again, the template above is quite good.

You could stat it out as a normal creature, but you said you wanted separate advancement for the host as well as the creature. Not sure how to work that other than saying the Vagabond can advance its HD, but can also advance the host's class levels while so possessed.

Basically- the vagabond possesses a host and thus adventures. Any class levels gained remain with the host when the vagabond leaves. The vagabond itself advances its HD as an outsider.

Not very streamlined, and rather clumsy though...I'll see what else I can come up with.

I wouldn't imagine that class levels gained while under the power of a vagabond would stay with the host. I would also have to dig through my 2e stuff to get a clearer picture of the vagabond's scope.

Although there is no precedent, one could simply tack the psion levels onto the template. When the vagabond leaves a host, the "vagabond template" is removed, as well as the psion levels it earned. These levels, along with the template, would be tacked onto the next creature...

... which would get strange if it inhabited the body of a creature that was already a psion.

So, since this is a special case, it would be spot's responsibility as a GM to avoid that altogether, and we can go on.

Step one: young vagabond inhabits Lars, a 5th-level human fighter. Lars becomes a CR 8 creature (CR 5 +3 for the template).

Step two: Lars+vagabond wander the world, and vagabond earns 4 levels of psion, making it a CR 12-13 creature:
a) Lars is CR 5,
b) +3 or +4 for the template (Lars is still only a 5-hd creature, but we can make a case that he is now 9-HD due to the psion levels)
c) +4 for the psion levels

Step three: Vagabond is forced out of Lars by adventurers, leaving Lars as a 5th-level fighter again.

Step four-option one: Vagabond is functionally powerless when not in a host, so his psion levels remain in a wave state until he takes another body, at which time he adds his template modifier AND his psion levels to the new form (ex: Jurgen the 10th-level elven wizard becomes a CR 18 critter, with 10 levels of wizard and 4 of psion).

Step four-option two: Vagabond, outside of a host body, is a 1-HD Outsider plus whatever levels of Psion it gained. We'd have to make it up, pretty much, and the CR would be probably 3 or so, given that it can take over a body.

We'd give it Flight, maybe extraplanar travel, and a variant of the Magic Jar ability. It wouldn't have Strength, but it would have everything else.

Summary:

One way or another, a rule is going to be bent or broken. If we decide to do it, let's break it hard, and make it as easy to use as possible.

- Devon

Good call about the transferring of levels and stuff Devon. Your ideas might work. Just have to try it and see how it works.

And I agree, if we are gonna bend or break a rule, might as well go for the gold and break the hell outta it.

Thank you for the help!
Hear is what i have come up with:
Creating A Vagabond
“Vagabond” is a template that can be added to any corporeal creature that has an Intelligence score (hereafter referred to as the “base creature”). It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Hit Dice: Same as base creature, or the vagabonds (gained from class levels, is any), which ever is higher (also takes the higher of either hit points).
Speed: Same as base creature
AC: Same as base creature.
Attacks: Same as base creature. At creatures BAB, or vagabonds (from its class levels), which ever is higher
Damage: Same as base creature (although, such things as the monks unarmed damage, could be used).
Special Attacks: The vagabond retains all the special attacks of the base creature, plus it gains the following special attacks.
Psionics (Sp): The vagabond possesses psionics abilities equal to that of a psionic creature of equal HD (see PsiHB pg. 139). Vagabonds never have powers from the Psychokinesis discipline, however.
Psionic Attack/Defense Modes (Sp): A vagabond possesses all psionic attack and defense modes.
Special Qualities: The vagabond retains all of the special qualities of the base creature, plus it gains the following:
Reform (Su): the vagabond can create a body for - itself, should it not be inhabiting one, the body forms as the vagabond forms from what seems to be a blob of ink that quickly forms a three dimensions, into a creature or a verity of types. The vagabond can mimic any creature of a challenge rating of 3 + one half of the vagabonds charter level (if any).
Inhabit (Ex): the vagabond can merge with a dead or living creature, if given a chance. If it is a dead creature, the corpse is healed of any ailments, and the vagabond is in total control as the base creature is devoid of intelligence. if it becomes a part of a living host, it is only able to give strong suggestions, like a back-seat driver, it can not force the 'host' to take any actions it dose not wish to, but the vagabond can use any 'powers' it wishes to (as if it was a separate creature, as long as it can 'access' the 'components' for such powers).
Telepathy (Su): A vagabond can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 ft that has a language.
Immunity (Ex): A vagabond is immune to all mind-affecting magical spells (not supernatural abilities or psionic powers).
Saves: Same as the base creature, or its own (from its own class levels) which ever is higher
Abilities: Same as the base creature except that, there is a separate Intelligence which is 18 (unless the base creature was created by the vagabond [as base creature IS the vagabond], or the vagabond inhabited a dead creature, in either case it replaces the base creatures intelligence), representing the vagabond. Base creatures Wisdom improves by +4 and Charisma increases by +2. Plus one half of the Vagabonds class level
Skills: Same as base creature, plus vagabonds (gained from class levels, if any)
Feats: as base creature, plus vagabonds (gained from class levels, is any)
Climate/Terrain: Same as base creature
Challenge Rating: Up to 3 HD, as base creature +2
4-7 HD, as base creature +3
8-15 HD, as base creature +4
16+ HD, as base creature +5
plus:up to 3rd vagabond class level, +2
4-7 vagabond class level, +3
8-15 vagabond class level, +4
16-20 vagabond class level, +5
adding an additional +1 for each additional 2 levels (half the vagabond class challenge rating mod. above, if said levels are NPC class levels)
Organization: Solitary or as part of base creature’s organization
Treasure: Same as base creature.
Alignment: Any (Neutral)
Advancement: base creature continues advancement as before except as noted below:
The vagabond and the base creature advances as separate creatures, earning XP, separately, (unless the base creature was created by the vagabond, or if the base creature was a corpse inhabited by the vagabond, in which case the base creature will not advance).
The vagabond needs one-thousand XP to advance to First level, from then on, it continues to advance as an ECL 1, creature.

Hi, spot,

Good synopsis -- some spelling issues, but that is neither here nor there.

Just wanted to be clear on the direction you're taking:

Psionics (Sp): The vagabond possesses psionics abilities equal to that of a psionic creature of equal HD (see PsiHB pg. 139).

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Mm I right in reading that the vagabond becomes a psion of the level of its host, or does it start out as an ECL 1 creature and gain levels afterwards?

If it possesses the dead body of a 4-HD wolf (or creates a new one from inky blackness), is the vagabond suddenly a 3rd or 4th-level psion, or does it start without psion levels?

Or, do you mean that the vagabond advances as an outsider, but ges psionic abilities as if it were a psion? For instance, a vagabond gets enough xp for 4 levels--since it's EL 1, it's now a 3-HD outsider, with powers equal to a 3rd-level psion.
- Devon

So, to go over my earlier theories about how this would work:

It seems, from my review of the vagabond's writeup in the 2e PsiHB, that the vagbond is functionally independent, unless it inhabits a dead body.

If it rides with a living, sentient host, it has no actual control over the body (and thus could be played as simply an incorporeal creature co-locating with the host), in which case it should get an NPC share of the xp for a given adventure (or a full share if the host is another NC). Its actions do not contribute to a host's survival any more than a companion would, and it actually incurs less risk. In this case, the ideal option would be for it to be played as an incorporeal outsider, and dealt with as another creature when figuring the CR of the encounter.

If the host is an animal or non-evolved creature of some sort, then the template idea works best, with the psion levels tacked on (as I had suggested earlier). It would still have to be played as two separate creatures, but they would functionally be the same.

If the vagabond simply forms the base creature out of inky blackness, then it would also be best as a template -- the CR of the vagabond is added to the CR of the form it creates. One could also justify simply having it as an Outsider with a special power to form a new body (as detailed in the templates above) , since it has a set of paramaters for the form it creates.

If the host was a dead body (ANY dead body, animal, adventurer, or otherwise), then the best way to write this would also be the template format. THe CRs would stack, since the vagabond has complete control over the body.

I think the main reason this creature was supposed to work in 2e was because it simply went away if the host creature/dead body/created form was ever slain, never to return. It was primarily a way for the GM to shake the PCs security.

In 3e, this can still be done, and would best be accomplished with a template. The big barriers are:

- what to do when it has no control over a given body.
- what to do if the GM wants it to stick around, and what form does it take between bodies?

- Devon

is there anything anyone else can add?
Or, could you Devon, be able to complete the creature using any of those theories

Please, some more info.... more in-put!

Hi, spot,

Any response to the couple of questions I had asked earlier? I would be able to give more input if I had those details ironed out.

- Devon

HI!! DEVON, what i want is a comperhensive way to create the Vagabond, both as the template (for when it creates a, or inhabit a dead, body) and a seprate 'stat' when it rides a living creature.