NG vs. NE: Neutral Evil is Victorious!

PJSlavner · Jun 3, 2006

Re: OOC1: What a surprise; I messed up with grappling. :\ I did not realize that the maximum BAB for determining iterative attacks is 20. In that case, Proteus took only 25-20=5 points of damage, and has 68 HP remaining.

New OOC: Proteus is pinned, so he cannot attack unless he escapes the pin. Also, in RoTG, after detailing how difficult it is to use spells or SLAs while pinned, it states that if you are pinned you cannot take any other actions besides trying to escape the pin (in place of an attack).

Round 153

The other being gets up (23 Fort save) and moves to 115N90E. Proteus escapes the pin on his first attempt (natural 20). Does he try to damage his opponent or escape the grapple?

Gansk · Jun 3, 2006

Infiniti2000 said:
OOC1: Unless hasted, Jurathor will get at most 4 grapple checks per round due to BAB. You cannot combine natural weapon attacks and grapple checks. Initial hold + pin + 2 more damage your opponent checks (not three).

PJSlavner, I screwed up in our last session if I let your bear attack with a natural weapon after an improved grab. I2K pointed something else out that I screwed up on our last session - no improved grab with an AoO (grapple check is a free action).

OOC2: One other note to Greybar, you can automatically choose to hold your opponent's mouth closed when grappling. It's obvious Proteus has been using it to cast spells, so I'm sure Jurathor would do that, but maybe he's giving Proteus a fighting chance?

Technically, the closing a mouth bit is allowed after a pin, not just when grappling, right?

PJSlavner · Jun 3, 2006

Yes about closing, but there was a pin.

Gansk · Jun 3, 2006

In the immortal words of Inspector Clouseau, "Not anymore."

Besides, if Proteus is invisible, how does Jurathor know where his mouth is?

Infiniti2000 · Jun 3, 2006

Gansk said:
Besides, if Proteus is invisible, how does Jurathor know where his mouth is?

Good question and whether there is a miss chance in grappling due to concealment is hotly debated. I don't personally care either way and there are good mechanical and flavor reasons for both interpretations.

PJSlavner said:
Proteus is pinned, so he cannot attack unless he escapes the pin.

Good point. Duh on me.

PJSlavner said:
Proteus escapes the pin on his first attempt (natural 20).

That's another point of contention. I did not think an automatic "hit" (or miss) applied on opposed grapple checks. Maybe Proteus wins on the nat. 20 anyways, but I personally do not rule it that way in my games.

Gansk said:
I2K pointed something else out that I screwed up on our last session - no improved grab with an AoO (grapple check is a free action).

If it matters, we've been doing the improved grab on an AoO during the course of BoAA. I brought it up a long time ago and you decided to allow it. You may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I also allow it in my game. I just think the idea of a glabrezu grabbing a fleeing wizard is too cool not to allow.

All that said and done, if Proteus escaped the pin, he will try to escape the grapple on his next two iterative attacks.

Gansk · Jun 3, 2006

Infiniti2000 said:
Good question and whether there is a miss chance in grappling due to concealment is hotly debated. I don't personally care either way and there are good mechanical and flavor reasons for both interpretations.

I don't want to introduce a miss chance, I just want invisibility to prevent body part identification.

That's another point of contention. I did not think an automatic "hit" (or miss) applied on opposed grapple checks. Maybe Proteus wins on the nat. 20 anyways, but I personally do not rule it that way in my games.

I think we have been taking "the grapple check is like an attack roll" quote fairly literally, so we'll keep doing it for the sake of consistency.

I brought it up a long time ago and you decided to allow it. You may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I also allow it in my game. I just think the idea of a glabrezu grabbing a fleeing wizard is too cool not to allow.

Hmmm, that sounds vaguely familiar. OK, we'll keep ruling that way for the sake of consistency as well.

Proteus escapes the grapple on his last attempt (natural 20). Please select the adjacent square where Proteus ends up.

Infiniti2000 · Jun 3, 2006

Proteus ends up where he started, 115n90e. Isn't this grand? Another conundrum. Do invisible attackers provide flanking?

PJSlavner · Jun 3, 2006

Infiniti2000 said:
Proteus ends up where he started, 115n90e. Isn't this grand? Another conundrum. Do invisible attackers provide flanking?

I would normally say no, but Jurathor has blindsense, so I would say that he is aware of the threat from both sides. Also, now Proteus and the other being are sharing the same square and squeezing. I am guessing that was not the intent.

I do not like a natural 20 automatically succeeding to escape or initiate a grapple (unless it is my character trying to escape

), but that is the rule.

Infiniti2000 · Jun 3, 2006

Entering the same space as the other guy was definitely not the intent, but I don't think there's any kind of sense between them, so he probably doesn't know he's there. I'd guess that puts Proteus back into Jurathor's Space and prone, right? Or just put him at 115n95e.

PJSlavner · Jun 3, 2006

OK. Proteus is in Jurathor's space (110N90E) and prone.

NG vs. NE: Neutral Evil is Victorious!

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