Two Interesting Magic Item Questions

Archade · May 10, 2006

My players hurt my brain ... 15th level hurts my brain ... some input would be appreciated ...

1) ONe of my players has created a magic item (a belt buckle) that is a wondrous item that can be activated to create the shield spell effect 1/day. If the creator goes and upgrades the item to become intelligent, is it in possession of itself and can it activate the shield ability, or is this a separate ability that can only be activated by the wielder?

2) One of my players wants to create a staff -- fine. No problem. However, he also wants to build in some wondrous item abilities to the staff -- how do I go about pricing this?

Thanks so much.

Infiniti2000 · May 10, 2006

1. Don't let him decide to make an item intelligent. If you do, you'll need to create some rules on how he can do it, and if you already have a headache, you don't want to make it even worse. The answer to your question, however, is that the item can activate the power on its own if it wants to or is told to (and agrees).

2. Either don't allow it (staffs are not wondrous items) as the default case, or make all such costs at at least +50%, or maybe higher. Be careful about what types of abilities he wants to add. For example, I let the archmage IMC add detect magic at will for 2,000 gp. PCs rarely use 0th level spells anyways, and my group of 6 had 4 primary casters, so detect magic was already in abundance. I would not, as a counterexample, allow cure minor wounds at will for the same amount.

Hypersmurf · May 11, 2006

Infiniti2000 said:
1. Don't let him decide to make an item intelligent. If you do, you'll need to create some rules on how he can do it...

I'll create those rules right now!

INTELLIGENT ITEM CREATION
To create an intelligent item, a character must have a caster level of 15th or higher. Time and creation cost are based on the normal item creation rules, with the market price values on Table: Item Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, and Capabilities treated as additions to time, gp cost, and XP cost. The item’s alignment is the same as its creator’s. Determine other features randomly, following the guidelines in the relevant section.

Done!

-Hyp.

KarinsDad · May 11, 2006

Archade said:
1) ONe of my players has created a magic item (a belt buckle) that is a wondrous item that can be activated to create the shield spell effect 1/day. If the creator goes and upgrades the item to become intelligent, is it in possession of itself and can it activate the shield ability, or is this a separate ability that can only be activated by the wielder?

Additionally, you should not have allowed this item to be created in the first place.

Personal spells are personal for a reason: so that every player cannot get their hands on the spell.

Personal spells should never be placed in a Spell Trigger, Command Word, or Use Activated item. Ever.

Jack Simth · May 11, 2006

You mean like the Overland Flight effect of a Carpet of Flying, or the See Invisibility aspect of the Hand of Glory?

Benimoto · May 11, 2006

At level 15, unless I'm missing something, you're just as well off having a +2 animated heavy shield as having a belt buckle that can cast the shield spell by itself. Unless you're a monk or plan on being hit by a lot of magic missiles or something.

That is to say, I don't see how having this item, particularly at level 15 is overpowering. It's something to watch closely, but I think I'd probably allow it.

Hypersmurf · May 11, 2006

KarinsDad said:
Personal spells should never be placed in a Spell Trigger, Command Word, or Use Activated item. Ever.

This is your personal preference, rather than a rule, right?

Aside from potions, there's no rule to that effect. And I'm looking at Wands of False Life and Mirror Image; Staffs of Transmutation, Illusion, Defense, and Abjuration; Rings of Blinking and Elemental Command; etc which demonstrate the fact.

-Hyp.

KarinsDad · May 11, 2006

Jack Simth said:
You mean like the Overland Flight effect of a Carpet of Flying, or the See Invisibility aspect of the Hand of Glory?

Precisely.

Btw, Carpet of Flying was based off the Fly spell in 3E which was not a personal spell. You'll note that Monte did not base Carpet of Flying off of a personal spell. This was a case of a later on designer mucking with the idea when a different spell was available.

Ditto for Hand of Glory. In 3E, See Invisibility (not Detect Invisibility) was not a personal spell either. Granted, it only worked for the caster, but it was not a personal spell.

Additionally, both 3E and 3.5 state Detect Invisibility for Hand of Glory, however, Detect Invisibility is not a 3E or 3.5 spell. It is a 1E and 2E spell. So much for design.

The reason it is a bad idea to put personal spells into an item (other than a scroll where the user has to have either the proper spell list or UMD) is the same for other items as it is for potions:

Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

It allows non-spell casters access to spells which are specifically designed to be used only by a class who has that spell on his class spell list.

Granted, this is not a rule. It is just a bad idea for the same reason it is a bad idea to do it for a potion. There is no real difference. Giving a Fighter a Shield spell with a Potion is not much different than giving it to him with a once per day item. In fact, it is even more of a bad idea with a daily item because it can be "abused" (in this case, both having a shield and using a two handed weapon or two weapon) more often than a single charge potion.

Really. What good is it to take an Arcane spell caster if all of the really good arcane personal spells can easily be placed into items that anybody can use?

Hypersmurf · May 11, 2006

KarinsDad said:
The reason it is a bad idea to put personal spells into an item (other than a scroll where the user has to have either the proper spell list or UMD) is the same for other items as it is for potions...

But you need the proper spell list or UMD to use a Spell Trigger item too... which is one of the categories you Should-Not-Everified above...

-Hyp.

KarinsDad · May 11, 2006

Hypersmurf said:
This is your personal preference, rather than a rule, right?

Right. Based off the Potion rule.

Hypersmurf said:
Aside from potions, there's no rule to that effect. And I'm looking at Wands of False Life and Mirror Image; Staffs of Transmutation, Illusion, Defense, and Abjuration; Rings of Blinking and Elemental Command; etc which demonstrate the fact.

Wands and Staffs are Spell Trigger. They require the user to have the spell on his list.

The Rings are a bit of a special case. They require a high level caster to craft, are generally pricey, and take up a valuable slot (ring slots are generally more valuable than most other item slots since many valuable effects are often only found in rings).

Like I said, not a rule. Just something a DM should seriously consider before allowing in his game.