Combat help, I need to be more tactical

Oryan77 · Jun 4, 2006

I'm DM'ing a new group and now I have a serious powergamer in the mix. I think I'm a pretty good tactical DM when it comes to combat, but I've always known that I could stand to get better. I'm more of a roleplayer than a hack-n-slasher so I was never focused on whooping on players during combat all the time...the old players were the same way.

But now the powergamer is making me aware that I'll need to up my game during encounters to keep the feeling of being challenged. I don't want them to feel like every encounter is going to be a breeze because I can't make the powergamer feel threatened.

So I'm looking for tips and advice on what type of things to keep in mind when my npc's are in combat. Things like, who should target who, what melee/ranged tactics to use, type of spells that I should use against specific classes of PC's...things like that. What classes are weak against what tactics and what tactics should I avoid against the classes?

The party consists of:

6th lvl Half-Orc Cleric (powergamer with a 27 AC who boasts about being able to get a higher AC if he wanted...so I expect he'll probably do it as he levels).

6th lvl Tiefling rogue (using 2-weapon fighting and my pickup fighter levels)

6th lvl Half-Elf Ranger with wolf companion using archery combat

6th lvl Dwarf barbarian (hasn't played yet so not sure what to expect from him)

7th lvl Half-Elf Sorceress focusing on using heavy damage spells

Any advice would be great, thanks!

Pickaxe · Jun 4, 2006

Focusing on the cleric, I would target reflex saves and touch attacks. For fighter-types, tripping is a nice tactic against spellcasters. I'm assuming this character is heavily armored, so ranged touch attacks are nice; ray of enfeeblement is particularly nasty for someone who relies on strength to wear armor.

(Added after additional time to think about it)

Web is another spell that could be put to great effect against this party, to split it up while the NPCs pick the characters off one by one. Even the characters with good reflex saves will be hampered, since the webs will slow them down and provide cover against archery. The party itself is pretty well balanced, but each character has a critical role (e.g., only one true healer, one high damage melee type), such that breaking them up creates a vulnerability.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not advocating creating encounters designed specifically to attack the party's weaknesses. NPCs should generally play to their strengths and retreat when things go against them; as they learn more about their opponents, they may develop specific tactics for dealing with their enemies.

--Axe

Oryan77 said:
I'm DM'ing a new group and now I have a serious powergamer in the mix. I think I'm a pretty good tactical DM when it comes to combat, but I've always known that I could stand to get better. I'm more of a roleplayer than a hack-n-slasher so I was never focused on whooping on players during combat all the time...the old players were the same way.

But now the powergamer is making me aware that I'll need to up my game during encounters to keep the feeling of being challenged. I don't want them to feel like every encounter is going to be a breeze because I can't make the powergamer feel threatened.

So I'm looking for tips and advice on what type of things to keep in mind when my npc's are in combat. Things like, who should target who, what melee/ranged tactics to use, type of spells that I should use against specific classes of PC's...things like that. What classes are weak against what tactics and what tactics should I avoid against the classes?

The party consists of:

6th lvl Half-Orc Cleric (powergamer with a 27 AC who boasts about being able to get a higher AC if he wanted...so I expect he'll probably do it as he levels).

6th lvl Tiefling rogue (using 2-weapon fighting and my pickup fighter levels)

6th lvl Half-Elf Ranger with wolf companion using archery combat

6th lvl Dwarf barbarian (hasn't played yet so not sure what to expect from him)

7th lvl Half-Elf Sorceress focusing on using heavy damage spells

Any advice would be great, thanks!

The Thayan Menace · Jun 4, 2006

Undeath Solves Everything!

Use incorporeal undead. They are extremely sneaky and nasty.

If the half-orc cleric wears any obvious holy symbols, you can easily justify picking him off ... before he even gets a chance to use his turning ability.

Taking your current party into account, I'd employ a pack of (3-6) shadows ... according to your EL preference:

3 shadows (EL 6)
4 shadows (EL 7)
5 shadows (EL 8)
6 shadows (EL 9)

By the way, don't go out of your way to kill the half-orc PC ... just take him down a peg.

-Samir Asad: Velsharoonite Superstar

Legildur · Jun 5, 2006

Dispel Magic is your friend. Looks to me that your half-orc cleric is using Magical Vestment etc to boost his armor and shield. Mind you, don't throw it in the mix straight up, wait until the minions can't hit him and then the sorceror/wizard works out what is going on and then debuffs him.

As for the others, have a read of some of the story hours. There are a few examples where an apparently simple encounter goes awry because of clever tactical use of the environment. Things that channel the PCs and control the battlefield, creatures with reach etc, and particular humanoid types with class levels (try an orc monk wielding a quartstaff or spiked chain with the improved disarm and combat reflexes feats).

frankthedm · Jun 5, 2006

Sunder that holy symbol!

jcfiala · Jun 5, 2006

Smart NPC groups that are expecting adventurers or meddlers are going to target wizards first, followed by possibly clerics, and may have their own wizards or sorcerers of their own. So, ranged attack folk on the other group should be targeting the wizard if they can, especially if first contact is a distance.

Tanglefoot bags are good too - Toss 'em at folks and stop them.

Elder-Basilisk · Jun 5, 2006

For tactical DMing, I've got two suggestions:

1. Look for how your creatures can work together. For instance, an elemental is a tough foe and a mind flayer is also a tough foe, but an elemental controlled by a mind flayer who can use his mind blast through the elemental without worrying about stunning him is a much more challenging encounter.

Similarly, a group of lower level bandit archers can be an interesting challenge, but they are much more challenging if you toss a mid level bard who can toss an inspirational boosted bardsong on them and give them all +2 to hit and damage. Add in an ogre with a reach weapon who can make PCs pay for charging them and you've got a recipe for a challenging encounter without simple solutions (especially of one or two of them ready to disrupt the inevitable fireball).

Indeed, I would maintain that it is not just good to look for synergy but actually necessary to look for synergy if you want any encounter with multiple weaker creatures to work.

2. Look for ways to take advantage of the environment. Is the fight occuring on a cliff ledge? If so, consider bull-rushing people off of the cliff. Is the fight occuring on a frozen lake? Consider burning through the ice with a flaming sphere or fireball. The PCs may avoid the damage but still fall into the icy water and then you get to use hypothermia and swimming rules. If there's a stockade of cattle near the fight, have someone frighten them so that they stampede over the PCs.

When I studied theatre I was told that if there's a gun above the mantlepiece in act 1, it will be fired by act 5. Look for the proverbial gun over the mantlepiece and make sure that it gets fired if it's to your advantage to fire it. Not only will it make combats more tactical, it will also make them more cinematic and more interesting.

Stalker0 · Jun 5, 2006

The best advice I know of was mentioned, creature synergy. A bunch of the same type of creature is often weaker than a combo of different creatures. 5 fighters is often weaker than 3 fighters and 2 spellcasters...etc.

Also, I find terrain to be a very useful way to make encounters more challenging...and more fun!! I think the best ideas are ones that gives both the enemies and PCS benefits...its just the enemies benefit more.

For example, take them to a holy site where everyone gains Fast Healing 5. Now have them fight a creature with DR. The fast healing helps the party, but it makes the monster REALLY hard to kill.

Or a magic alter that increases everyone's caster level by 1. The party's mage loves it, but so does the 5 npc casters.

Goolpsy · Jun 5, 2006

Just watch out! You can't make imposible and really really tough encounters everytime, and you can't be constantly targetting the party cleric (at least not without a CLEAR roleplaying reason). It's always nice when a DM can switch between different difficulties, so making every encounter really hard, makes it harder for yourself to give them a good variety of challenges.

I have done 1 mistake as a DM... I had a team of powergamers once... and now some of them left.. and others joined in, the problem is, that im trying not to be playing a powergaming campaign, but more a roleplaying campaign... My old powergamers still have Chars with around 24 Armor class at level 1...
So watch out!

Hairfoot · Jun 5, 2006

Play the monsters smart. Don't be afraid to overwhelm the PCs with low-CR beasties. For example, get four kobolds to grapple the the melee brutes while others stand around and stab at them.

Militaristic monsters like orcs and hobgoblins will fight in ranks. Get a row of longspears covering a row of archers/crossbowmen. The PCs will have to take action to pick the formation apart to avoid being pin-cushioned, instead of relying on high numerical bonuses to ho-hum their way through a melee horde.