Why are D&D discussions so angry?
- Thread starter big dummy
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Graf
Explorer
To respond to the original why question:
It has to do with the lifecycle of DnD itself.
Originally the game came out (or back when it was Eric Noah’s site before the game came out) people didn’t have strong personal opinions.
A lot of people came to the boards to find out about the new thing that was happening to the hobby. They were curious, they were often thought leaders in their local roleplaying communities and trying to engage in a meaningful (from their standpoint) discussion.
The original vibe of the boards “isn’t this cool”, “how fun is this?” “look at what I thought of!”
The aggressive weirdos were more like mascots.
Now the game has aged; the player base has played enough that most of the curious new players now know as much as they need to. If someone wants to add a new magic system they may pop in for a bit but they have understood every concept they want to and houseruled the rest away. They aren’t out trawling for cool ideas. They have more than they can probably use for several years.
Also: Enworld is believed by some people to be read by folks in the industry. The Paizo folks post from time to time; so do a few freelancers and 3rd party publishers.
So the number of people posting has fallen and its shifted a lot more toward two groups 1) very serious people and 2) the population of people who play roleplaying games and aren’t really happy with their lives.
1. Serious people really want to affect the development of the game. They constantly post (esp. about dungeon and dragon) because they think it will affect what appears in Dungeon and Dragon. They feel that if they post about “too many base classes!” “not enough fluff/crunch!” their voice, which they desperately want to be heard, will be.
2. Not much to say about these people. There are always people in communities who are a part of that community to the detriment of others. Eventually those others, who can deal with a wider variety of social situations more maturely, will move to different forums. There are a few people who aren’t terribly fun to have a conversation with around here, but as the population falls (and the remainder of people post less regularly) their presence becomes huge.
They can be the first few posts on a new thread and turn it to stone, or find each other and hijack it.
It’s not an avoidable problem; many of the smarter and more creative people, who were excited about DnD and used to be regular contributors have simply left. They aren’t coming back and EnWorld will remain as it is.
It has to do with the lifecycle of DnD itself.
Originally the game came out (or back when it was Eric Noah’s site before the game came out) people didn’t have strong personal opinions.
A lot of people came to the boards to find out about the new thing that was happening to the hobby. They were curious, they were often thought leaders in their local roleplaying communities and trying to engage in a meaningful (from their standpoint) discussion.
The original vibe of the boards “isn’t this cool”, “how fun is this?” “look at what I thought of!”
The aggressive weirdos were more like mascots.
Now the game has aged; the player base has played enough that most of the curious new players now know as much as they need to. If someone wants to add a new magic system they may pop in for a bit but they have understood every concept they want to and houseruled the rest away. They aren’t out trawling for cool ideas. They have more than they can probably use for several years.
Also: Enworld is believed by some people to be read by folks in the industry. The Paizo folks post from time to time; so do a few freelancers and 3rd party publishers.
So the number of people posting has fallen and its shifted a lot more toward two groups 1) very serious people and 2) the population of people who play roleplaying games and aren’t really happy with their lives.
1. Serious people really want to affect the development of the game. They constantly post (esp. about dungeon and dragon) because they think it will affect what appears in Dungeon and Dragon. They feel that if they post about “too many base classes!” “not enough fluff/crunch!” their voice, which they desperately want to be heard, will be.
2. Not much to say about these people. There are always people in communities who are a part of that community to the detriment of others. Eventually those others, who can deal with a wider variety of social situations more maturely, will move to different forums. There are a few people who aren’t terribly fun to have a conversation with around here, but as the population falls (and the remainder of people post less regularly) their presence becomes huge.
They can be the first few posts on a new thread and turn it to stone, or find each other and hijack it.
It’s not an avoidable problem; many of the smarter and more creative people, who were excited about DnD and used to be regular contributors have simply left. They aren’t coming back and EnWorld will remain as it is.
Hussar
Legend
big dummy said:
I'm sorry, but, no, you didn't. You didn't state that at all. What you stated was that the changes you advocate are the equivalent of saving babies from horrible diseases and anyone who disagrees with you is an ignorant barbarian using leeches and rattling bones.
The second you state your opinion in such a way, it becomes an attack. Whether you intended it to be an attack or not, that is how it will be perceived. There are any number of ways to introduce an idea and some are better than others.
When you make the statement that you are saving babies with your ideas and anyone who disagrees with you is guilty of letting babies die, then that is not "baldly stating", it's flamebait.
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Hussar said:Meh, leave the Titans out of this one. I wanna see the gods have at it and spawn a whole number of lesser dieties that are less tied to alignment.
Oh, and ALL the elves die this time.
Hey I liked deities tied to alignment. They make it easy to enjoy. Besides just cause the Titans aren't around doesn't mean they can't come back and help change things around.
But sure, I'll kill off the elves.
And no I'm just trying to get the number #2 spot in all time posting. Catching Crothy, I figure is something I'll never quite make.
Graf,
So you're saying I'm socially immature?!
Thanks man. Next time you want an SL present I'll save it for myself. 
Aikuchi
Transient
oer,
Most of my home-brewed campaigns have the elves, readicated, wiped out, extinct, hunted or otherwise something similar. Thats doesnt stop nor deter half my players though, in fact- in some cases, it endears thems to play it much more. --- sigh ---
I would look forward to official high fantasy material where elves (or elf-like- there are many) are not integrated into the system as playable
Most of my home-brewed campaigns have the elves, readicated, wiped out, extinct, hunted or otherwise something similar. Thats doesnt stop nor deter half my players though, in fact- in some cases, it endears thems to play it much more. --- sigh ---
I would look forward to official high fantasy material where elves (or elf-like- there are many) are not integrated into the system as playable
William Ronald
Explorer
I have seen some examples of threads getting out of hand, and examples of passive aggressiveness on the boards. However, I find most threads to be fairly civil. (Mind you, I do agree with reporting offensive posts.)
One thing that I find beneficial is to consider that my views are based on my own experiences, and other people may have vastly different experiences. In the case of rules, some people may see an aspect of a game as a flaw and others as one of the games strengths. With this in mind, I try to base my arguments on facts, wand recognize that there are many possible interpretations. For example, some people love one set of rules, or a specific setting. Others do not. However, when I see a thread on one of those settings or other topics, I try to participate in a respectful manner. Regardless of our differences on the board, I think we all want to be treated with respect. In fact, I think most of the disagreements on the boards come about when someone perceives that another poster has been disrespectful -- whether or not that was the person's intention.
I try to recognize that people on the boards can be passionate. Sometimes, our passions can get in the way of our seeing the strengths and weaknesses in someone's arguments. I also believe in trying to give others the benefit of the doubt.
I think that the board benefits by having a diversity of opinions, and I have seen some great threads where people have differed strongly in their views or personal preferences yet treat each other respectfully. I think that we do have a lot to learn from each other. My general advice is to realize that not everyone will share your experiences or views, but that they deserve your respect as a fellow board member and a human being.
I think that most people on the boards want to have fun in their discussions and learn a lot from how other people have fun in their own games. While not everyone will like the same things, I think that this board benefits greatly from its diversity of tastes and opinions. So, I would suggest that we have to remember that sometimes our truths are a matter of perspective rather than absolute facts. In which case, I think that the best attitude to have is "I may disagree with you, but I respect you. I hope that you are having as much fun in your games as I am having in mine."
One thing that I find beneficial is to consider that my views are based on my own experiences, and other people may have vastly different experiences. In the case of rules, some people may see an aspect of a game as a flaw and others as one of the games strengths. With this in mind, I try to base my arguments on facts, wand recognize that there are many possible interpretations. For example, some people love one set of rules, or a specific setting. Others do not. However, when I see a thread on one of those settings or other topics, I try to participate in a respectful manner. Regardless of our differences on the board, I think we all want to be treated with respect. In fact, I think most of the disagreements on the boards come about when someone perceives that another poster has been disrespectful -- whether or not that was the person's intention.
I try to recognize that people on the boards can be passionate. Sometimes, our passions can get in the way of our seeing the strengths and weaknesses in someone's arguments. I also believe in trying to give others the benefit of the doubt.
I think that the board benefits by having a diversity of opinions, and I have seen some great threads where people have differed strongly in their views or personal preferences yet treat each other respectfully. I think that we do have a lot to learn from each other. My general advice is to realize that not everyone will share your experiences or views, but that they deserve your respect as a fellow board member and a human being.
I think that most people on the boards want to have fun in their discussions and learn a lot from how other people have fun in their own games. While not everyone will like the same things, I think that this board benefits greatly from its diversity of tastes and opinions. So, I would suggest that we have to remember that sometimes our truths are a matter of perspective rather than absolute facts. In which case, I think that the best attitude to have is "I may disagree with you, but I respect you. I hope that you are having as much fun in your games as I am having in mine."
First of all it is not just RPG boards. Go onto almost any Battlestar Galatica board and make a comment about the differences between the old show and the new show then sit back and watch the thread explode.
I think part of it is the nature of boards people can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice so it is very easy to misunderstand what the person is trying to say.
There will also be people who just have to win to show how smart they think they are who go into debate mode so no matter you say they will pick it a part and it goes on and on while the first person keeps trying to explain and the debate person justs keeps looking for ammunation to use against that person. I have been drawn into this cycle before and I have found that the best way to stop it is to finally say that's enough and quit answering.
We are also human and we have buttons that get pushed and sometimes we respond negatively because of said buttons. I have to watch myself over topics that use the word balanced and sub optimal build.
I also think that it is part of human nature to feel just a little invalidated when someone critizes something we like. And sometimes we respond to that and answer hotly.
And I hate to say this put there will always be nasty people who feel that it is okay to crap all over someone else and these people seem to find the internet a good place to do it.
I think part of it is the nature of boards people can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice so it is very easy to misunderstand what the person is trying to say.
There will also be people who just have to win to show how smart they think they are who go into debate mode so no matter you say they will pick it a part and it goes on and on while the first person keeps trying to explain and the debate person justs keeps looking for ammunation to use against that person. I have been drawn into this cycle before and I have found that the best way to stop it is to finally say that's enough and quit answering.
We are also human and we have buttons that get pushed and sometimes we respond negatively because of said buttons. I have to watch myself over topics that use the word balanced and sub optimal build.
I also think that it is part of human nature to feel just a little invalidated when someone critizes something we like. And sometimes we respond to that and answer hotly.
And I hate to say this put there will always be nasty people who feel that it is okay to crap all over someone else and these people seem to find the internet a good place to do it.
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