Why are D&D discussions so angry?

Well thought writing doesn't kill threads. I do!

Piratecat said:

Speaking from the six years I've spent here, let me be the first to say that the way the initial question is posed has a huge impact on the tone of the discussion.

If the original poster appears to have an agenda or insults people's opinions when posing a question, I can almost guarantee that the thread will go south within half a page. The same question (even a negative one!) asked from a more neutral view does a lot better.

I think of EN World as a party at Morrus' house. I won't pick a fight with someone when we're both guests, so I won't pick a fight with other posters; I may disagree with someone, but that's as far as it goes. The rules of conduct in polite society still stand, so no matter what I may think of someone personally I can still share the space with them.

Some people, though, forget that they're a guest in someone else's house. They treat EN World as if everyone else is a guest in their house -- and that way lies madness.

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I've got to agree with Piratecat here. Part of the problem with intractability lies in presentation. Oftentimes the original post sets the tone for the thread, but it is also possible for the tone (as well as topic) to be derailed further into a thread. Consider the following statements.

I have a player that is playing a dwarf PC and seems to be overpowered compared to the rest of the group. It seems that the special abilities of the dwarf are unbalanced.

Contrast this with:
The dwarf PC in the group is too powerful. What were the designers thinking when they created the race?

Or even worse:
Dwarves are obviously unbalanced and the designers were smoking crack when they wrote the race up. Only an idiot would allow a player to play a dwarf.

All three are legitimate opinions. But the first statement is more likely to encourage a constructive conversation on the issues. The second statement might end up with a constructive conversation. The third statement is going to aggravate all the dwarf loving players and quickly degenerate into flames.

So be thoughtful with the tone you are setting with your posts, especially if you are starting a thread!

A second issue is when people are unwilling to let a fire burn itself out. It takes more than one person to continue an argument or a flamefest. Sometimes the best response is not to take the bait. When you see somebody post something obviously inflamatory, ignore it. Report the post if it is clearly a problem post.

There is also the issue of not being able to read the tone the poster intended accurately. Most of us don't personally know everyone else on the board. It is possible to misread the tone for several reasons. One might be that the person has a different sense of humor than you do. Another might be a regional difference in word usage. Perhaps the poster is even posting in a non-native language. Perhaps the poster was in a rush, or having a rough day and was more terse than he meant to be. Perhaps you are having a bad day and you are more likely to misread somebody else's intent. Over time, as you become familiar with specific members of the board, you will be able to read tone better. Just as you learn somebody better in real life, you will learn how to read people better in the virtual world.

My experience with EN World is that the overall community and tone is helpful. I like a good many folks here on the boards and I look forward to meeting them in person someday. There are problem posts/threads and those need to be addressed. As a community member, feel free to report a post. There are a lot of threads here and moderators sometimes need help to identify the inflamatory messages. I try to maintain a set of rules or presumptions here on EN World so that I don't get too bugged by other people and try to avoid being a problem myself.

• Try to be thoughtful when posting. If I want to maintain a good discussion, I need to be clear and I need to try to bring something to the conversation.
• Avoid the fires. If somebody appears to be looking for an arguement, I don't need to give it to them.
• Be responsible. If I can help eliminate a problem, it isn't that hard to report a post I think might be problematic.
• Assume the best of my fellow posters. I try not to assume that anybody else meant to anger me. It doesn't cost me anything to assume I misread a post, or that the poster worded something in an unintentionally abrasive manner. But if I assume the other guy is a jerk and was trying to make me mad, it might cost me an opportunity to make a friend.
• Show wisdom rather than post. If every post I read seems to have a negative tone to it, the problem is likely me. Maybe I need to logoff. EN World will be here tomorrow and I won't be in a pissy mood then.

Conventional wisdom says "Anything that is posted in En World, will eventually have Nightfall talking about the Scarred Lands. At some point."

rounser said:

So....some of the best threads die quickly because everyone's in agreement?

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I didn't say that the super polite threads were necessarily the best.

They're just less likely to attract opinionated posts, less likely to have an interesting contention, and much less likely to have mods bumping the things by asking posters to calm down.

I feel irrational anger* when people disagree with me.
I feel irrational anger if someone implies my gaming style is worse, or that they're more capable. ("Well, that system worked fine for my group..."
I feel irrational anger if someone ignores my posts.

I don't really know why.

* Nothing as serious as wanting to throw my computer monitor thorugh a window

PSH,

Maybe it's that migrane you get each time you try to think... *is kidding*

Besides who would ignore you. Uhm who are you again?

big dummy said:

"Reform" was the most diplomatic term I could come up with.

*snip*

To use your analogy, what I would see is that it would be like going into the baby ward in 1920 and discussing the possibility of a polio vaccine, or the possibility of using disposable instead of cloth diapers and having everyone shout you down!

BD

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And, BD, that is why you draw so much ire. In that last sentence, you baldly state your view. Reform is equivalent to saving babies and anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot who wants babies to die.

I can't be the only one who has noted this tone. While one doesn't have to always walk on eggshells, if a poster starts making comparisons like this, stating opinions as facts then there should be no surprise when the poster gets blasted for it.

big dummy said:

Appreciate the general advice, and it's well stated. I got a lot of this kind of response and it's been quite insightful for the most part, and applicable to any web forum as you said. What I'm still wondering is what it is about RpG's in particular and the idea of anything even in the ballpark of reform specifically which triggers such a violent reaction (why is the mere mention of 4E such a lightning rod for example?). I guess it's just a given that some subjects can't be discussed in some places. My next question then is, is there any other (public) place, and if not, what does this mean for the future of RPG's ?

BD

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See the problem here is that I don't agree with your assertion on a wholesale level. I have had several discussions on the relative merits of system changes. However, I readily admit that some threads rapidly degenerate into flames.

On the topic of 4E specifically, there are quite a few pain points in the discussion. One issue is a perception of value. For many of us, 4E wouldn't bring any value to our games at this time. Indeed, it might detract value. You can parse through the threads to see specific grievances. But those pain points make 4E an emotional topic. Yes, clearly the game will evolve. In some ways that evolution might be an improvement. In other ways, it might not.

But I do believe it is possible to discuss changes to the core system in a constructive manner. But much depends on your presentation and goals. I missed the thread you are referencing, so I cannot provide specific advice on how you might phrase something differently.

*hums Last Caress* Yeah well it happens Hussar. Some people see dead babies. Other people see living ones. Course I'm no Haley Joel Osment, but there you are.

BardStephenFox said:

But I do believe it is possible to discuss changes to the core system in a constructive manner. But much depends on your presentation and goals. I missed the thread you are referencing, so I cannot provide specific advice on how you might phrase something differently.

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Uhm using the words please and thank you works okay with me. That and a good sense of humor.