Is it possible to make giant ants scary to a 15th level party?

molonel

First Post
The group is composed of the following:

1. Human Barbarian 1, Rogue 3, Fighter 8, Half-Celestial 3 (using the template levels from Sean K. Reynolds's Anger of Angels).

2. Elven Monk 8, Shadowdancer 5, Half-Dragon template class 2 (Gold).

3. Human Ranger 14.

4. Elven Rogue 13, Assassin 1.

The group is about to sneak into a desert temple compound through one end that is a giant ant nest.

They will likely use spells from the ranger to push through most of the nest.

But I'm presently researching how to make the encounter scary for them if the spells fail at some point.

Any suggestions? I'm not asking anyone to do the work. I'm just asking for pointers to appropriate rules. I'm thinking maybe poison, swarm rules, stuff like that.
 

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Jack Simth

First Post
Homebrew critters?

There's lots of options:

They can be individual tanks, but not particularly many of them at a time:
Spell resistance is good; pick a number such that the primary casters can get through it, just not easily. AC is good; again, pick a number such that the primary fighter can't dump too much into Power Attack if he expects to actually hit the thing (50% chance again - although you want this one lower, so that he can use Power Attack; set an AC about 6 higher than his attack bonus - he hits 75% of the time for his normal weapon swing, or 50% of the time power attacking for 5). Attack bonus is good; again, pick a number such that the primary tank gets hit - prefferably, about 50% of the time. Saves are good; pick a number such that the primary caster is going to be foiled by the save about 50% of the time. HP is good; pick a number such that, if the party is focusing on one, it will last X rounds (X should be about 2) on average.

They can be mostly fluff critters, but lots of them - and I mean lots - They go down in one hit from the primary fighter, and he cleaves through them easily, missing on maybe a roll of 2. They can scarcely touch the tank, hitting him on maybe a roll of 19. Casters go Zap, Zap, Zap to clean them up. Slight problem, though..... sure, they can kill 20/round.... but there's a few thousand, all attacking at once (they have something ranged, so they can keep attacking, although range increments and soft cover mean the vast majority miss even the low ac characters).

They can be sneaky critters - hiding in shadows, laying traps, running away from every straight-up encounter, zapping with different poisons from the shadows. Require the party have the ability to do things like walk on the cieling (tunnel with lots of bends, and the floor is coated in something caustic - set damage to suit; no primary caster? Climb checks, everyone.....). The ants handle this naturally as a matter of course (for that matter, make it so the floor isn't a trap per se, but simply a hazardous area - perhaps the grubs constantly secrete a digestive enzyme that quickly dissolves most organic matter so they can eat it by osmosis through their skin).

Perhaps they're clever bugs, and many of them have levels in Wizard (Enchanter) or Psion (telepath); most your players don't look like their Will saves are particularly grand; a little something so that the tank leaves a small amount of blood behind, a Wizard comes in after, and sends a little Demand to the party tank..... or Dominate Person from a closer range.

Perhaps there's a mix - Castes are standard in real ant nests - a zillion workers busily laying traps and re-routing tunnels to less invader-friendly areas, lots of recently hatched Warriors slaughtering themselves in a bloodbath up against the party, a few lucky harder-shelled Warriors with several extra years growth to up their potential; The Queen as a master of the mind, and a few Consorts (males) looking to find a sneaky way to impress the queen better for the next batch of grubs.

Edit: Perhaps there's a stage of grubhood wherein magic itself is part of their diet, and every so often there's an Antimagic Field because of it.

What flavor are you after? Is this nest an orginized thing, a forerunner of some kind of invading force? Is this nest a random thing, mindless insects following their programming to breed and spread themselves? Is it a mostly mindless hive with a few gifted overseers making the tactical decisions?
 
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EvilGM

Explorer
scary? definitely

Giant Ant hive
1 Queen Giant Ant [advanced to 8HD (Huge)]
5-20 Soldier Giant Ants [advanced to 6HD (Large)]
10-100 Worker Giant Ants [advanced to 6HD (Large)]

A few possibilities for improving the ants:
-flying ants
-horned ants (charge/gore attack)
-giant-mandibled ants (higher bite dmg)
-add poison
-turn acid sting into an acid spray
-spell reflecting carapace

You can use tiny ants (swarm).

Use difficult terrain to slow movement. Use environmental hazards to whittle them down.

Outside the nest - Quicksand, Heat

Inside the nest -Cave-Ins and Collapses

Good luck in challenging your party.
 

Quartz

Hero
This group has no primary spellcasters! How are they off for resistance to poison? And you could give the Queen levels in fighter - think of the end of Aliens.
 



dvvega

Explorer
SWARM Template ... have you ever aggravated an ant's nest? Just watch out!

And take the term Soldier Ant to the next level ... fighter levels, organised tactics, etc.

What about a Fire Ant who does fire damage.

Just some silly ideas.
 

shilsen

Adventurer
Throw the mechanics of the half-dragon template (just modify the flavor) on a bunch of advanced giant ants. If you use a Giant Soldier Ant advanced to 6 HD (large) and use the template, that's a CR 6 creature that has flight, a 6d8 breath weapon, 30 Str, a +13 attack bonus and and a grapple check of +18. Throw a swarm of them at the PCs and they can be in some serious trouble.
 

wmasters

First Post
For that party swarms are going to be a problem - with no primary spellcasters they're short on area effect damage - dragons breath and alchemists fire falls back to the main way of dealing with them.

A couple of swarms of ants should work pretty well. Especially in conjunction with the a few giant advanced ants.
 

SS

First Post
molonel said:
Any suggestions? I'm not asking anyone to do the work. I'm just asking for pointers to appropriate rules.


Have you ever seen or read Starship Troopers, or even the short lived Roghnecks CGI?

One word monarchy. Let the players find a nursery at one point, oh and the nannies too.

Please don't forget to add in an ant lion. They look like an ant, but larger. They are solitary creatures. They usually set up shop near an ant colony. Their lair is an upside down cone built from sand. Anything that gets near the lair will slide down to the ant lion. The ant lion will be submerged below the sand's surface, waiting for its prey. Or, it will be rehabbing the lair. You could have it wiggling an antenna just out of its pit to attract prey. To fantasy this up a bit, you could give the ant lion some illusion abilities.

"Hey what that shiny gold thing down there? No problem I'll get it. Climb, climb, climb, slip, fall. This isn't gold, this isn't gold at all? AHHH!"
 

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