Replacing a paladin's special mount

How does this work exactly? The rules don't put any requirement as to how long it takes for the mount to appear. And if the paladin "releases" his mount, as described in the rules, can he gain another one immediately?

IMC, I'm ruling that the paladin has to wait 30 days, just as he would if his mount had been killed. But I'm not imposing the attack and damage penalties.

It just seems too lenient to let them change their mount daily when a wizard has to wait 1 year to replace their familiar.

You can find the SRD rules here.

SRD said:

Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin’s level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains for 2 hours per paladin level; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.

Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect. "

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Does not say that dismissing the mount means he cannot resummon the next day, in fact, it quite explicitly states the opposite. Sending the mount back to the celestial realm in which it resides is expected, since the mount only lasts 2 hours per paladin level.

The mount appears at the end of the full round action it takes to summon it. This is not the same act as summoning a familiar, the celestial mount is a "pokemount" you summon him from heaven, and send him back there when the job is done. You resummon him when you need him next, like a CCG creature. You cannot put a mages familiar back to its celestial realm, it isnt a celestial creature. You dont summon it every day, and it doesnt only last for 2 hours/level at a time, either. The special mount, and mage familiar are not similar in any way, really.

The special mount feature sucks to start with, the mount is useless in dungeons, castles, any other area large creatures dont fit into, etc, and it isnt exactly indestructible either.

At 5th level it lasts 10 hours per summon, so basically a days ride, and then it goes back to its heavenly rest till the next time you need it.

Seeten said:

The special mount feature sucks to start with, the mount is useless in dungeons, castles, any other area large creatures dont fit into, etc, and it isnt exactly indestructible either.

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Unless you are a gnome, halfling, or other small-sized paladin, of course. Go, medium sized paladin's war dog!

azhrei_fje said:

How does this work exactly? The rules don't put any requirement as to how long it takes for the mount to appear. And if the paladin "releases" his mount, as described in the rules, can he gain another one immediately?

IMC, I'm ruling that the paladin has to wait 30 days, just as he would if his mount had been killed. But I'm not imposing the attack and damage penalties.

It just seems too lenient to let them change their mount daily when a wizard has to wait 1 year to replace their familiar.

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On the other hand, a druid or ranger can replace his animal companion after a 24-hour ceremony. I personally think the rules for losing and replacing a familar are too harsh, which contributes to the feeling that a familiar is a liability rather than an advantage. But that's a discussion for another thread.

I think the 30-day wait sounds like a good baseline, but I would allow two exceptions:

1. The paladin may replace his mount whenever he gains a level, since he does not have to wait the full 30 days to replace a slain mount if he gains a level.

2. At the DM's judgement, if a paladin performs a great service for a creature that could be a suitable mount (e.g. saves its life, rescues it from captivity, frees it from a curse or some other enchantment, etc.) and that creature willingly agrees to serve the paladin as his special mount, the paladin may release his existing special mount and replace it with that creature after a 24-hour ceremony.

FireLance said:

On the other hand, a druid or ranger can replace his animal companion after a 24-hour ceremony. I personally think the rules for losing and replacing a familar are too harsh, which contributes to the feeling that a familiar is a liability rather than an advantage. But that's a discussion for another thread.

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Hmm, I hadn't considered the animal companion as a comparable situation (we don't have a druid or ranger in the current party). But I think it's reasonable to only put a 24-hour delay on it, with the day spent fasting and in prayer.

Now a different question along the same lines: the paladin and his mount (a griffon), were flying from point A to point B (well, actually the mount was doing all the flying!). They were attacked and the mount was hit with an insanity curse, one which the party cleric cannot cure.

The description says that the same mount returns each time the paladin summons their mount and it returns with the same gear and such. The rules also say it returns in "full health". I ruled the "full health" to mean hit points, ability damage, etc. But the insanity was a permanent effect so I didn't see it as wearing off overnight.

Anyway, the paladin wanted to free that particular creature and summon another. That's why I said "30 days, but no attack/damage penalty". The alternative would be to kill the mount. Not a good choice, for a variety of reasons.

However, I will tell the player that 24 hours is all that's needed. So they can go out and choose another/different mount. In 126 XP, the paladin will be 9th level, so he probably will just wait and choose a new one then.

Thanks for the opinions!

azhrei_fje said:

The description says that the same mount returns each time the paladin summons their mount and it returns with the same gear and such. The rules also say it returns in "full health". I ruled the "full health" to mean hit points, ability damage, etc. But the insanity was a permanent effect so I didn't see it as wearing off overnight.

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I would disagree. "Full health" in D&D would include fixing such things as insanity. If they meant merely full hit points, it would say full hit points.

Time is irrelevant here. If I bring forth my Mount late yesterday evening, in the middle of a morning combat I can dismiss the Mount as a Free Action then bring my Mount back with a followup full action. The Mount travels all the way back to the Celestial realms wherever its stable happens to be and then reappears, completely restored and ready to kick butt.

azhrei_fje said:

Now a different question along the same lines: the paladin and his mount (a griffon), were flying from point A to point B (well, actually the mount was doing all the flying!). They were attacked and the mount was hit with an insanity curse, one which the party cleric cannot cure.

The description says that the same mount returns each time the paladin summons their mount and it returns with the same gear and such. The rules also say it returns in "full health". I ruled the "full health" to mean hit points, ability damage, etc. But the insanity was a permanent effect so I didn't see it as wearing off overnight.

Anyway, the paladin wanted to free that particular creature and summon another. That's why I said "30 days, but no attack/damage penalty". The alternative would be to kill the mount. Not a good choice, for a variety of reasons.


Thanks for the opinions!

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So the paladin would rather leave an insane griffon in that state (regardless of who can cure it in the other realms) rather than quest to cure it? Me thinks the paladin has more than just a mount problem on his hands.

Just my opinion though.

I'd go with the druid's 24 ceremony listing.

Ridley's Cohort said:

I would disagree. "Full health" in D&D would include fixing such things as insanity. If they meant merely full hit points, it would say full hit points.

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Wow, you think so? (Anyone else want to comment?)

I looked at the heal mount spell, which is basically heal, but only for the paladin's special mount. But if they can dismiss it and call it back and it comes back healed, would they really need the spell? I realize that the spell can be used multiple times in a single day, but still...

Now I'm worried that I really ruled this wrong. The insanity effect gives a list of spells that will remove the affliction, and heal is in the list (it doesn't list heal mount, but that's obviously just an oversight). But if the consensus is that simply dismissing the mount and recalling it is enough to cure all diseases and effects and removes all conditions, then I need to backtrack a little...

Thanks all (a bit worried now)

azhrei_fje said:

Wow, you think so? (Anyone else want to comment?)

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I agree with Ridley's Cohort, for what it's worth.

I looked at the heal mount spell, which is basically heal, but only for the paladin's special mount. But if they can dismiss it and call it back and it comes back healed, would they really need the spell? I realize that the spell can be used multiple times in a single day, but still...

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Yes, they would. You're forgetting that sending the mount away means you can't summon it again till the next day. So a lot of the time it'll be preferable to use a heal mount spell, rather than sending the mount away and being without its aid until tomorrow.

Now I'm worried that I really ruled this wrong. The insanity effect gives a list of spells that will remove the affliction, and heal is in the list (it doesn't list heal mount, but that's obviously just an oversight). But if the consensus is that simply dismissing the mount and recalling it is enough to cure all diseases and effects and removes all conditions, then I need to backtrack a little...

Thanks all (a bit worried now)

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I wouldn't worry about it, but I do think the "mount comes back healed" approach is the best.