Adventuring in the Caves of Chaos

Quasqueton · Jun 18, 2006

Adventuring in the Caves of Chaos of the adventure module Keep on the Borderlands.

BD&D party (0 xp):
[Human] Fighter 1
[Human] Cleric 1
[Human] Magic-User 1
[Human] Thief 1
Elf [Fighter/Magic-User] 1
Dwarf [Fighter] 1
Halfling [Fighter] 1

D&D3 party (0 xp):
Human Fighter 1
Human Cleric 1
Human Wizard 1
Human Rogue 1
Elf Fighter/Wizard 0/0
Dwarf Fighter 1
Halfling Fighter 1

The adventure says it is designed for 6 to 9 characters, and there are 7 total classes in BD&D, so I went with 7 PCs (1 of each class) for this adventure. [Although I've never played in or run KotB with more than 6 PCs, and the norm for my BD&D playing was 4 Players/PCs.]

Total gold value: 29,852 gp

Total magic items:
shield +1 (x3)
potion of healing (x4)
scroll of fireball
hand axe +1 (x2)
rope of climbing
arrow +1 (x6)
potion of invisibility
scroll of cure light wounds, hold person
potion of poison
wand of paralyzation (7 charges)
scroll of protection from undead (x2)
spear +1
staff of healing
plate mail +1 (x2)
potion of gaseous form (x2)
potion of growth
sword -1 cursed
elven boots
snake staff
scroll of detect magic, hold person, silence 15' radius
sword +2
helm of alignment change
wand of enemy detection (9 charges)
potion of stone to flesh (x6)
amulet of protection from turning (x28)
amulet of protection from good (x6)

Total defeated enemies:
81 kobolds
2 giant centipedes
42 orcs
38 goblins
1 ogre
51 hobgoblins
3 gray oozes
1 owlbear
24 bugbear
13 stirges
5 fire beetles
1 minotaur
37 gnolls
32 skeletons
39 zombies
9 clerics
1 wight
1 gelatinous cube
1 medusa
[284 "humanoid"esque living creatures]
After clearing the caves (not counting any "refills"):

BD&D party (5,151 xp):
[Human] Fighter 3
[Human] Cleric 3
[Human] Magic-User 3
[Human] Thief 4
Elf [Fighter/Magic-User] 2
Dwarf [Fighter] 3
Halfling [Fighter] 3

D&D3 party (10,425 xp):
Human Fighter 5
Human Cleric 5
Human Wizard 5
Human Rogue 5
Elf Fighter/Wizard 2/3
Dwarf Fighter 5
Halfling Fighter 5

Quasqueton

the Jester · Jun 18, 2006

Aha, I loved your thread examining the numbers on ToEE!

Can't wait to see more of this...

harmyn · Jun 18, 2006

Treasure and XP seem about right to me.

Got to remember that this wasn't a simple one off plotted adventure. KotB is a lot more like a mini-campaign. It takes several sessions in either edition to complete and the body count among PCs can be high unless they are very careful.

With a party of 6 each will end up with a share of just under 5k in gold. Magic is where you have to watch it, but even though the list is long, its mostly temporary or useless.

Of the 26 categories of listed items, 5 are useful potions, 4 are scrolls, 3 are cursed, and 2 are only useful if you are evil or undead. Of the remaining remaining 12 categories of items 2 are individual wands that are almost out of charges, another is a collection of 6 +1 arrows (useful but limited and expended quickly). That leaves only 9 remaining categories of long lasting magic items. The most powerful is the +2 sword and you do have 2 suits of magic armor and 3 magic shields. At 5th level its projected that you will have about 9k in gear. With the coin and magic you won't be too far off where you are supposed to be.

Endur · Jun 18, 2006

I agree, the numbers look good.

However, the levels might actually be less in actual play. For basic D&D, lots of PCs will die, meaning that most of the party might be 1st and 2nd level with a rare 3rd level. For D&D3.5, some of the encounters that are lower EL than the party level will result in reduced experienced points, thus slowing advancement. On the other hand, big encounters with a high EL (several linked rooms) will give the D&D3.5 players even more experience.

D'karr · Jun 18, 2006

Even though I started playing D&D with the Basic Set (Magenta), I never DMd B2 using BD&D we used AD&D. In that edition the gold value also increased the XP for the party.

B2 took several months to complete, it was a self-contained campaign and the springboard to other adventures. I remember the we lost 3-4 characters to the caves. When all was said and done I think the characters were about 4-5 level. We went from the Keep on the Borderlands to Slave Pits of the Undercity and the whole Slavers series (A1-A4). From there I believe we had some other adventures including home-brewed adventures and IIRC Ghost Tower of Inverness. Then it was Against the Giants. Yep, good times... Sometimes I miss that simplicity.

Quasqueton · Jun 18, 2006

Let me nip these misconceptions in the bud, before they grow in this thread.

However, the levels might actually be less in actual play. For basic D&D, lots of PCs will die, meaning that most of the party might be 1st and 2nd level with a rare 3rd level.

It's quite likely that both the BD&D and D&D3 groups will have deaths. I didn't realize just how tough parts of the CoC are until I was going through it in detail. For instance, in the kobold cave, there are 7 encounter areas: 8 kobolds; 6 kobolds; 18 giant/dire rats; no enemies; 3 "large" kobolds; 1 "huge" kobold and 5 kobolds; 40 kobolds.

That's ELs 3, ~1.5, ~6, --, ~1.5, ~3, ~8! How well do you think a party of seven 1st-level PCs is going to fair against 18 giant/dire rats all attacking at once? The D&D3 party has max hit points at first level, but the BD&D party has the BD&D sleep spell

For D&D3.5, some of the encounters that are lower EL than the party level will result in reduced experienced points, thus slowing advancement. On the other hand, big encounters with a high EL (several linked rooms) will give the D&D3.5 players even more experience.

EL has nothing to do with xp. CR drives xp. EL is just a measure for the DM to judge encounter difficulty, not for awarding xp.

Quasqueton

Quasqueton · Jun 18, 2006

Even though I started playing D&D with the Basic Set (Magenta), I never DMd B2 using BD&D we used AD&D. In that edition the gold value also increased the XP for the party.

1gp = 1xp in BD&D also. This is included in the above numbers.

Quasqueton

Endur · Jun 18, 2006

Quasqueton said:
That's ELs 3, ~1.5, ~6, --, ~1.5, ~3, ~8! How well do you think a party of seven 1st-level PCs is going to fair against 18 giant/dire rats all attacking at once? The D&D3 party has max hit points at first level, but the BD&D party has the BD&D sleep spell

A good point about sleep, unfortunately the BD&D party can only use Sleep once a day (1st level wizards only had one spell in BD&D). So sleep is awesome for one encounter, usually the first big encounter of the day. In play, I remember BD&D being an extremely bloody enterprise, with lots of character deaths, sometimes the same player losing multiple characters in an hour. D&D3.5 is rarely deadly to PCs by comparison.