Can Clerics Cure Cancer?

STARP_Social_Officer · Jun 28, 2006

This stems from an argument with my players. Never mind why it came up. They weren't trying to cure cancer. None of them plays a cleric. It just sort of came up.
Anyway, one player reckons the remove disease spell removes cancer. The spell description says it removes all diseases from the subject, and also removes parasites like green slime. In the player's mind, given the physiology of cancer, he believes the spell will remove cancerous growth.
I disagree. I don't think it does. The spell to me seems designed to cure contagious diseases, viruses, strange bugs picked up from mummy tombs, maladies and so on. It doesn't seem within the spirit of the spell to have it cure cancer, or any other 'disease' that you don't directly contract from an outside source. You don't 'catch' cancer like you catch a cold - it develops pretty much on its own, though it can be stimulated by environment. I would have the same view about Alzheimers, or Parkinson's, or similar mental conditions. They're probably classified as diseases but I can't accept that a 3rd-level spell would get rid of any and all medical conditions a patient may be suffering from. Mind you, only two levels later is a spell to raise the dead, so maybe I'm being a bit zealous. What do people think? Can Clerics Cure Cancer?

Angel Tarragon · Jun 28, 2006

I would say no. I concur with your reasoning.

EDIT: Just a side note, this subject seems better aimed at getting responses in the General Forum than in the Rules Forum.

Infiniti2000 · Jun 28, 2006

STARP_Social_Officer said:
What do people think? Can Clerics Cure Cancer?

That's an impossible question unless you give us the game mechanics on cancer. Two conflicting quotes that you can use to support either case:

1. Remove disease cures all diseases that the subject is suffering from.
2. Certain special diseases may not be countered by this spell or may be countered only by a caster of a certain level or higher.

So, give us the game mechanics and unless you specify a caveat based on #2, then #1 holds true and remove disease cures cancer. Even then, if the caveat is level based, then the answer to your question is still yes.

Rystil Arden · Jun 28, 2006

Infiniti2000 said:
That's an impossible question unless you give us the game mechanics on cancer. Two conflicting quotes that you can use to support either case:

1. Remove disease cures all diseases that the subject is suffering from.
2. Certain special diseases may not be countered by this spell or may be countered only by a caster of a certain level or higher.

So, give us the game mechanics and unless you specify a caveat based on #2, then #1 holds true and remove disease cures cancer. Even then, if the caveat is level based, then the answer to your question is still yes.

One could claim that cancer is not a disease in the D&D sense so much as a disorder. Would Remove Disease cure being an albino or having a birth defect? How about sickle cell anemia or schizophrenia?

Sejs · Jun 28, 2006

Even if Cure Disease doesn't cure cancer, I would certainly say that Heal does. At that point in their career a cleric is a few levels past the point where they can bring people back from the dead. Cancer should be less difficult to manage than death.

Anyway, as far as my personal take on would Cure Disease take care of cancer, I'd say that no, technically it doesn't. Despite falling under the general category of 'malady' and being classified as a disease here and now, it's not a function of some hostile external agency setting up shop in your body. Cancer is a function of your own body's operations going very, very wrong to the point where it's harmful to itself.

So yes, I would say that clerics can indeed cure cancer, etc - but with Heal rather than Cure Disease.

Sejs · Jun 28, 2006

Rystil Arden said:
One could claim that cancer is not a disease in the D&D sense so much as a disorder. Would Remove Disease cure being an albino or having a birth defect? How about sickle cell anemia or schizophrenia?

The measuring stick I'd use there is: were you born with it, or was it something that developed later on? If you were born with it, sorry, it's integral. If something happened later on that caused it to develop, then steps could be taken to set you right once more.

Again, using the Cure Disease vs. Heal comparison I spoke of above.

Vorput · Jun 28, 2006

Sejs said:
Even if Cure Disease doesn't cure cancer, I would certainly say that Heal does. At that point in their career a cleric is a few levels past the point where they can bring people back from the dead. Cancer should be less difficult to manage than death.

So yes, I would say that clerics can indeed cure cancer, etc - but with Heal rather than Cure Disease.

Intersting point... I'd say power wise, a spell two levels below bringing the dead BACK TO LIFE! certainly seems balanced, power-wise, as a cancer-curer. And I think as per the mechanics, definetly.

At the very least, there should be a 4th level spell to do it... and since restoration and neutralize poison don't seem to fit the bill, i'll go with RD.

Vorp

Infiniti2000 · Jun 28, 2006

Rystil Arden said:
One could claim that cancer is not a disease in the D&D sense so much as a disorder. Would Remove Disease cure being an albino or having a birth defect? How about sickle cell anemia or schizophrenia?

My answer would be exactly the same as for cancer, just substitute the words.

Are birth defects diseases? Is schizophrenia? If so, then perhaps, depending on your answer. If you give us the game mechanics on schizophrenia (a word apparently no longer used except in rare instances) and decide to call it a "disorder" and not a "disease" then you need to provide all the mechanics on disorders.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with that. I would classify them all as diseases, because they are, and just specify that some birth defects and mental disorders cannot be cured by remove disease. Perhaps schizophrenia requires a heal. Etc.

Rystil Arden · Jun 28, 2006

Sejs said:
The measuring stick I'd use there is: were you born with it, or was it something that developed later on? If you were born with it, sorry, it's integral. If something happened later on that caused it to develop, then steps could be taken to set you right once more.

Again, using the Cure Disease vs. Heal comparison I spoke of above.

Yup. Also, if you wanted to cure albinoism or sickle cell anemia, you'd have to actually physically alter the target's genome, so it would be a Transmutation spell rather than Conjuration. How's that for a twisted mix of biology and spellcraft?

Rystil Arden · Jun 28, 2006

Vorput said:
Intersting point... I'd say power wise, a spell two levels below bringing the dead BACK TO LIFE! certainly seems balanced, power-wise, as a cancer-curer. And I think as per the mechanics, definetly.

At the very least, there should be a 4th level spell to do it... and since restoration and neutralize poison don't seem to fit the bill, i'll go with RD.

Vorp

Well, there is precedent for natural degradation of the body being uncurable by magic--those who die of old age cannot be raised or resurrected.

Can Clerics Cure Cancer?

STARP_Social_Officer

First Post

Angel Tarragon

Dawn Dragon

Infiniti2000

First Post

Rystil Arden

First Post

Sejs

First Post

Sejs

First Post

Vorput

First Post

Infiniti2000

First Post

Rystil Arden

First Post

Rystil Arden

First Post

Similar Threads