Discussion of the LEW Panthon (and potential changes)

I'm opening this up to discuss the pantheon a bit, and perhaps tweek it to a more sound and complete pantheon.

Living Enworld Judge said:

Greater Deities:
Gundar, LN God of the Earth.
Halina, NG goddess of fertility, agriculture and childbirth.
Halor, CN God of the Sky.

Intermediate Deities:
Delanor, LG god of marines, sailors, seagoing merchants and maritime trade.
Gliran, LN god of wizardry and sorcery.

Lesser Deities:
Antonidas, LG god of academics, invention and magic.
Chennet', NG god of weapons, armor, the forge and craftsmen.
Geoth, NG god of cooking, hospitability and celebration.
Grendath, CG god of luck, heroism in battle, freedom, and exploration.
Hyrag, NG god of the sun's healing power and foe of the undead.
Jareth, LE god of gaming.
Kazikazi, CE goblinoid god of vengeance and tunneling.
Lilitu, NE drow goddess of manipulation, trickery and deceit.
Mishtuli, CE drow god of killing for sport and assassins.
Sela, LN god of unity, lasting accomplishments, and stone buildings.
Shural, LN goblinoid god of architecture and reason.
Taka, NE goddess of thievery and dishonesty with one's self.
Taurusk, CE god of war and bloodshed.
Verdante, NG god of natural cycles, plants, and animals.


Demigods:
Ayratha, LN goddess of fire and transformation.
Mongrel, CN god of the lost and dispossessed.
Phyrah, true neutral god of travel, exploration, music, storytelling and quests.
Russna, N goddess of knowledge and language.
Seto, NE god of assassins, death and darkness.
Shurassa, CN goddess of storms and wrath.
Ulura, N goddess of lovers and secrets.

Philosophies
Mortalists

Click to expand...

My Notes on the Pantheon:

Delanor: Intermediate LG god of marines, sailors, seagoing merchants and maritime trade
Needs one more domain (Water?) for better flavor

Needs to be a little more fleshed out. Not a lot to go on. He looks like he's tied closer to the Military than sailing. LG is an odd allignment for a sailor god.

Should he be an Intermediate God? I think Lesser is probably better.

Favored Weapon: Scimitar should be added.

-------------------------
Gliran: Intermediate LN God of Wizardry and Sorcery
May need one more domain (Rune?, Death?), though currently it's not that with the 3 selected.

Favored weapon: Longsword? I guess he's a god tied to Eldritch Knights, but he even says he'd rather use spells than tools. Quarterstaff or Dagger might be better suited, or even the light crossbow.

Has some beliefs and background info, could be expanded on a bit, but probably not needed that desperately. Seems a little too aimed at arcane magic and not inclusive of clerics, unless that was an oversight in how it was presented, and that could easily be adjusted.

Seems a little too cornered to be an intermediate deity, though that's not unreasonable.

-------------------------

Antonidas: Lesser LG god of academics, invention and magic
May need one more domain (Rune?, Artiface?). This seems more relivent, though his current domains are identical to Gliran.

He's got beliefs, worshipers, and some story. I like him. I think he's perfect where he is, having declined to a lesser deity by process of arguements in faith and lack of evangelical worshipers.

-------------------------
Chennet': NG god of weapons, armor, the forge and craftsmen
Forge domain ever finished? if not, replace it with Artiface?

Is it me, or did someone get inspired by Animal House?

Could use a little bit of an expansion, I'd probably change "god of weapons, armor, the forge and craftsmen" to "God of metalworking, the forge, and dwarves" and add a little more dwarven flavor to it.

Could possibly be bumped up to Intermediate god.


-------------------------
Geoth: Lesser NG god of cooking, hospitability and celebration.
Favored Weapon (Note to use Club stats?)

I like him a lot. Good flavor, and a lot to go on to base a cleric on.

-------------------------
Grendath: Lesser CG god of luck, heroism in battle, freedom, and exploration
Domains: Replace Trickery with Travel or Liberation? (He is the god of exploration and freedom, and trickery doesn't make much sense in his spheres of influence)

Needs some more flavor about the cleric's worhip, the deity's origins, and such.

Seems to be popular, though he's broad and is worshiped by adventurers, so this seems reasonable. Shouldn't be any higher in the pantheon even due to the number of adventurers out there.

-------------------------
Hyrag: Lesser NG god of the sun's healing power and foe of the undead
Domain: Add the Glory domain? (not needed, but would work)

Needs more information. For a god that's worshiped by many, he's fairly sparce. (Perhaps married to Helina?)

Probably should be elevated to Sun god, and moved up to an intermediate god. Seems fairly influental, powerful, and well recieved in the world.

-------------------------
Jareth: Lesser LE god of gaming
Should read: LE god of assassins, games of skill

Filled out nicely, is a well done god.

Maybe add politics into the mix of spheres of worship/influence?

-------------------------
Kazikazi: Lesser CE goblinoid god of vengeance and tunneling
Shural: Lesser LN goblinoid god of architecture and reason

Generaly well done racial deities, with a history of the gods.

-------------------------
Lilitu: Lesser NE drow goddess of manipulation, trickery and deceit
Mishtuli: Lesser CE drow god of killing for sport and assassins

Probably needs a little more info on both, but having defined the Drow's roll in LEW might help a bit as well. It seems they're still the spider god worshiping redheaded stepchildren evil brothers of the elves.

Mishtuli allows for worshipers normaly outside of her realm of allignment influence, was this intentional and is this allowable?

Lilitu's favored weapon, a "poison ring"? Can we get something a bit better a cleric can use? A dagger works for deciept

Domain: Add the Charm domain to Lilitu?

--------------------------
Sela: Lesser LN god of unity, lasting accomplishments, and stone buildings

Sela is well done. The favored weapon sits a little odd with me, but I can see it.

I would suggest she be raised to an Intermediate.

--------------------------
Taka: Lesser NE goddess of thievery and dishonesty with one's self.
Domains: Add Darkness?

What do Thieves, Assasins, and Spiked Chains have in common? We could use a better Favored weapon (Sap? Short Sword? Dagger? Crossbow?)

Could use some more fleshing out, but has enough there to go on.

--------------------------
Taurusk: Lesser CE god of war and bloodshed.
Intermediate god? War is usually a big thing in a pantheon.

Lots of good stuff here. Very nice.

--------------------------
Verdante: Lesser NG god of natural cycles, plants, and animals
Domains: Add healing?

Generaly some good stuff here. Elevate to intermediate god of nature?

--------------------------
Ayratha: Demi LN goddess of fire and transformation.

Pretty good. Maybe another domain, but she's a demi.

--------------------------
Mongrel: Demi CN god of the lost and dispossessed.

Very well done. Lots of info, interesting hooks for worshipers, even non-clerics.

--------------------------
Phyrah: Demi true neutral god of travel, exploration, music, storytelling and quests.
Favored Weapon: Shield? Interesting.

Well done, some good flavor.

Maybe make a lesser?

---------------------------
Russna: Demi N goddess of knowledge and language.

Well done, good flavor.

---------------------------
Seto: Demi NE god of assassins, death and darkness.

Good flavor, well done.

Note, this is the 4th or 5th god where assasins were mentioned in it...

---------------------------
Shurassa: Demi CN goddess of storms and wrath.

Add Weather as a domain?

Well done, generaly good flavor.

---------------------------
Ulura: Demi N goddess of lovers and secrets.

Well done, good flavor.

Maybe make a lesser?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall coments:

With a few tweeks and some tie-ins, the pantheon is fairly complete now. I can see a few holes to be filled, and it looks like CE, LE, and CG could use another god or two. If a few of the Lessers and Demis are promoted, that will help a lot.

There are currently no difinitive gods for Death, Nature, Magic, and LG War. There are a few other concepts missing, and there seems to be a lot of mention of assasins amonst the evil gods.

Relations between the gods:
I think there should be a little more interaction between the gods. a Geniology, and perhaps a few comments on particular deities that have a past togeather.

I like the Seven Sisters, though other than they exist, not much has been done about them. Unless someone has specified, Helina seems an ideal mother (though potentialy not all the same father).

Halor may be a good father for Shurassa

In the (fairly forgotten) proposal about the bank of Orussus I suggested that temples, specially temples of Delanor are/could be used for storing money in them: clerics have the magic to defend them aganst thieves, there are personnel at them at all hours, and being sacred places is a modest deterrant against thievery in itself. Maybe we could tie commerce to Delanor´s portfolio, since maritime trade and commerce are closely related; perhaps also changing alignment to lawful neutral.

There are a few gods I'd like to change the allignments to, but i'm weary of suggesting that if I can avoid it.

Yes, it can be a problem for existing cleric characters.

Lilitu: Lesser NE drow goddess of manipulation, trickery and deceit
Mishtuli: Lesser CE drow god of killing for sport and assassins

Probably needs a little more info on both, but having defined the Drow's roll in LEW might help a bit as well. It seems they're still the spider god worshiping redheaded stepchildren evil brothers of the elves.

Mishtuli allows for worshipers normaly outside of her realm of allignment influence, was this intentional and is this allowable?

Lilitu's favored weapon, a "poison ring"? Can we get something a bit better a cleric can use? A dagger works for deciept

Domain: Add the Charm domain to Lilitu?

Click to expand...

Mishtuli is a male demon god who is trapped somewhere, and his lover Lilitu is trying to find him and wandering the Underdark. We can make the drow non-spider-worshipping easily. Perhaps they hate spiders because the lower form of their once-beautiful goddess is seen as a curse? Anyways, I tried to flesh them out slightly by creating the Nesfylim, a group of demon-loving Mishtuli worshipping drow who believe that Lilitu is looking in the wrong places and search the upper world for a way to free Mishtuli and bring a reign of evil to the world. First of all, I don't really feel the need for LEW to use the word 'Drow' for our Dark Elves, so the fact that most encountered Dark Elves (assuming you don't go to the Underdark) might be more specifically Nesfylim makes me happy. Second, it helps shift their role a bit, which I think is nice. I'm also thinking they might have gained Infernal Sight from their master and have a different colouring of eyes than normal. I can help expand this more if people like it.

When I made my characters (so far 1/2 orc and orc respectively) I found it odd that there was no orc God or even a pantheon.

Understanding that too many Gods becomes silly quickly I just went with what was available at the time.

If there is a possibility that an orc God would be viewed favorably, I will work on something.

However, in my experience on LEW it would be better if one of the judges made it up. The proposals by judges seem to get approved more often and a lot more quickly than those made by players.

Do we need to necessarily divide the deities as Greater, Intermediate, etc.? Does it really have an in-game effect? There may be better ways we can classify the deities.

For example, the Seven Sisters could be placed in one group. As it stands, there is a distinct difference between, say, Sela and Ayratha. Should there be?

I had my thoughts as well. Many mirror your thoughts, it seems.

Antonidas: Add Artifice domain.
Hyrag: Move to Intermediate deity, add Glory domain.
Verdante: Move to Intermediate Deity
Chennet': Needs Forge domain, or Artifice.
Gliran: Add Rune domain. Perhaps create an "Efficiency" domain allowing use of good and evil spells without penalty
Shurassa: Add Weather domain.

There has been the idea going around that Antonidas could essentially be a mystery cult of Gliran.

Jareth: Lesser LE god of gaming
Should read: LE god of assassins, games of skill

Filled out nicely, is a well done god.

Maybe add politics into the mix of spheres of worship/influence?

Click to expand...

That could work.

Taka: Lesser NE goddess of thievery and dishonesty with one's self.
Domains: Add Darkness?

What do Thieves, Assasins, and Spiked Chains have in common? We could use a better Favored weapon (Sap? Short Sword? Dagger? Crossbow?)

Could use some more fleshing out, but has enough there to go on.

Click to expand...

In Dance of Souls, I played up the cruel, hope-crushing aspect of Taka cleric. The spiked chain exemplifies crushed hope perfectly, in that every opponent would hope that the spiked chain harms the wielder more than the target.

Taurusk: Lesser CE god of war and bloodshed.
Intermediate god? War is usually a big thing in a pantheon.

Lots of good stuff here. Very nice.

Click to expand...

He should only be Intermediate if free. I'd say he's lesser due to his imprisonment.

I'd rather have all of the Seven Sisters be the same level. I think most are demigods?

DerHauptman said:

When I made my characters (so far 1/2 orc and orc respectively) I found it odd that there was no orc God or even a pantheon.

Understanding that too many Gods becomes silly quickly I just went with what was available at the time.

If there is a possibility that an orc God would be viewed favorably, I will work on something.

However, in my experience on LEW it would be better if one of the judges made it up. The proposals by judges seem to get approved more often and a lot more quickly than those made by players.

Click to expand...

I'm always willing to discuss pantheon stuff. You can e-mail me your ideas, or just propose it and we can tweek it.

I think an expanded pantheon is good, because it brings variety. Also, the expanded domains in the SRD could be interesting.

Also, a pantheon can help bring life into the world. Understanding what motivates people is a large part of religion, and religion is usually a large part of life in such times. We can fufill a few more roles without stepping on too many toes.

Roles:
Racial gods - Halflings, Elves, Gnomes, Orcs, Katara (though they're minor)
Nature - We may be filling that with Verdante though if he gets promoted and tweeked minorly
War (Good/lawful) - I've got a war/leadership god in mind.
Death - I have one sorta drawn up, I'll get that finished up at some point to add to the discussion
Greed/Money/Trade - probably can do without, but there are gods for this.

I can't think of anything else major, but there are minor rolls to fill still as well, probably for the remaining sisters.

Knight Otu said:

I had my thoughts as well. Many mirror your thoughts, it seems.

Antonidas: Add Artifice domain.
Hyrag: Move to Intermediate deity, add Glory domain.
Verdante: Move to Intermediate Deity
Chennet': Needs Forge domain, or Artifice.
Gliran: Add Rune domain. Perhaps create an "Efficiency" domain allowing use of good and evil spells without penalty
Shurassa: Add Weather domain.

There has been the idea going around that Antonidas could essentially be a mystery cult of Gliran.

Click to expand...

Good to see you mostly agree with me. Any thoughts on Delanor? He's one of the few that probably needs to most work.

Knight Otu said:

That could work.

Click to expand...

Glad you liked it.

Knight Otu said:

In Dance of Souls, I played up the cruel, hope-crushing aspect of Taka cleric. The spiked chain exemplifies crushed hope perfectly, in that every opponent would hope that the spiked chain harms the wielder more than the target.

Click to expand...

Ahh, well, then perhaps instead of "Thieves and dishonesty with one's self", it could be changed to "Deception, Hopelessness and cruelty"? That makes more sense.

Knight Otu said:

He should only be Intermediate if free. I'd say he's lesser due to his imprisonment.

Click to expand...

Ahh, good point. And I'll be making a good god of war at some point, so that one being intermediate would work better.

Knight Otu said:

I'd rather have all of the Seven Sisters be the same level. I think most are demigods?

Click to expand...

I believe so, there are only 4 or 5 of them defined. Do you agree they don't all have to have the same father? Or should they? Was there a father/mother in mind?