Gary Gygax Q&A: Part XI - Page 16





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  1. #151
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    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuStel
    You ignored his Don't Walk on the Grass signs. Isn't that enough?
    My character's pack of hounds will amply express how I regard that rotten, bark-covered pile of vegetation


    Gary

 

  • #152
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    Gary,

    Recently the discussion of whether or not d20 System is "elegant", what elegance in game design is, and how much it matters has been a rather hot topic here. I've read through FUDGE and similar systems, and they've really never grabbed my attention with the "elegance" raving fans seem to attribute to them (see the quote in my sig for my opinion on that). I rather like d20 System (3.0 D&D especially), both in spite of and because of its complexity, and somehow the extremely simple systems don't give me any enjoyment.

    As someone who has been in game design for a number of years and has worked on/with rules-light systems that have grabbed my attention, what input can you provide on what "elegance" is in a game system, how you have used it when designing your own systems, and how anyone can use it to improve on their games?
    'Genshou is the ruler of Genshouland and the creator of one thousand and one house rules; some of them good, some of them mediocre. Genshou likes cheese and root beer (but never together). Genshou is a young man who is always ridiculously cheerful. He has been described as a madman, a potato, and "cuddly".'

  • #153
    Father of the Game
    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)

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    Hi Genshou,

    Frankly, I think "elegance" is a pretentious term suimilar to that typically ised by art and antique dealers, "important." Elegant is not a quantifiable thing, it is an opinion and value judgement, as is the term important.

    Very ofter I find "elegant" used to laud some truly bad or dull game that only a handful of persons will ever enjoy playing, but some "important" critic/reviewer happens to like, or thinks he should like.

    I think if I say more I'll be in trouble with the clique that claims play of RPGs is an art form:

    "Yes, Dear Fellow, you play that game of make-believe so artfully..."

    Cheers,
    Gary

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  • #155
    Eternal Optimist SILVER DEFENDER
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    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    Very ofter I find "elegant" used to laud some truly bad or dull game that only a handful of persons will ever enjoy playing, but some "important" critic/reviewer happens to like, or thinks he should like.
    It's the "think he should like" reviewers that give the most trouble. I've seen a number of games that reviewers have loved the concept of, and thus raved about, but were, in the end, unplayable.

    Ticket to Ride: Europe is an "elegant" game. Why? Because my friends and I like it.

    Gary, have you seen the board game "Niagara"? I've been playing that with my friends recently, and enjoying greatly. It's a game that should appeal to both children and adults - it's rather fun to see your opponent miscalculate and have his canoe disappear over the waterfall, though less so when it happens to you, of course!

    Cheers!
    Merric Blackman
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  • #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    Frankly, I think "elegance" is a pretentious term suimilar to that typically ised by art and antique dealers, "important." Elegant is not a quantifiable thing, it is an opinion and value judgement, as is the term important.
    I've always said that the LA system has a certain elegance to it.

  • #157
    Father of the Game
    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdart
    Looks like you have another famous fan, Colonel!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUJsH...elated&search=


    Son Alex mentioned it first, then I received an email to my Talk List with the link, and now your kind direction...

    All to hear Len's name mentioned first


    Gary

  • #158
    Father of the Game
    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MerricB
    It's the "think he should like" reviewers that give the most trouble. I've seen a number of games that reviewers have loved the concept of, and thus raved about, but were, in the end, unplayable.
    What is really annoying about such reviews is when the reviewer is pompous.

    Ticket to Ride: Europe is an "elegant" game. Why? Because my friends and I like it.
    Four of us played it last night, and I elegantly beat the lot of them

    Gary, have you seen the board game "Niagara"? I've been playing that with my friends recently, and enjoying greatly. It's a game that should appeal to both children and adults - it's rather fun to see your opponent miscalculate and have his canoe disappear over the waterfall, though less so when it happens to you, of course!

    Cheers!
    No, I have not seen it, but I was introduced to Quo Vadis and Condottieri (I hope I spelled those correctly) last night, and they are both enjoyable. I managed a narrow victory in the Roman Senate, but failed to win the battle for control of Italy

    Cheers,
    Gary the Game Geek

  • #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh


    Son Alex mentioned it first, then I received an email to my Talk List with the link, and now your kind direction...

    All to hear Len's name mentioned first


    Gary
    He was uh, saving the best for last?

  • #160
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    Thanks for signing the GH mini boxed set for me last night, Gary! I think that's the first signature I've gotten from you since Origins 1987 in Baltimore

    edit - There's been some concerted discussion of Gary's old pre-2e classes over on the Knights & Knaves boards, in case folks are interested in popping over to check it out. I'm definitely interested in leveraging the notes from here to create OSRIC-compatible versions of these classes: http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpb...pic.php?t=1264
    Last edited by grodog; Friday, 14th July, 2006 at 05:10 PM.

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