Not QUITE a Warmage- (de)Gimp my Gish! - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    What are the penalties for using an oversized longsword with Monkey Grip?
    For the purposes of Whirling Blades, Monkey Grip's a waste for a longsword; it doesn't matter to you whether it's a one-handed or two-handed weapon you're throwing.

    If you had greatsword proficiency, using Monkey Grip for a Large greatsword for Whirling Blades might be interesting...

    -Hyp.

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    I was asking because of the suggestion you made about using a Large longsword with the spell...but I hadn't even considered a Large 2handed weapon...

    Hmmmmmmm

    I figured out that to get Point Blank Shot & Precise shot, its in my PC's best interests to take 2 levels of Fighter, so he WILL be proficient in Greatsword or Greataxe...

    AND it dovetails nicely with the concept of the PC being a Half-Elf with some Storm Giant in his family history...(His name, Myrskytar Keitolainen, is literal Finnish for "Spirit of the Storm Elf")...

    That spell could get stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    I was asking because of the suggestion you made about using a Large longsword with the spell...but I hadn't even considered a Large 2handed weapon...

    Hmmmmmmm

    I figured out that to get Point Blank Shot & Precise shot, its in my PC's best interests to take 2 levels of Fighter, so he WILL be proficient in Greatsword or Greataxe...

    AND it dovetails nicely with the concept of the PC being a Half-Elf with some Storm Giant in his family history...(His name, Myrskytar Keitolainen, is literal Finnish for "Spirit of the Storm Elf")...

    That spell could get stupid.
    You don't need to be using a whacky weapon to do rediculous damage with Whirling Blade. You just need to power attack with a two-handed weapon, and possibly Wraithstrike (Complete Adventurer?), which makes your attacks ignore armor, natural armor, and shields. Raising your greatsword from 2d6 to 3d6 is hardly worth the effort, at that point.

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    Power Attack requires a Str minimum of 13. Merely wielding a 2handed sword doesn't...

    Although, in all honesty, I can't recall the prerequisites for Monkey grip, and since my DM still has all the Completes, I can't look it up. Ditto for Wraithstrike.

    Besides, a raise of 2d6 to 3d6 is a 50% increase in damage...just like an increase from 1d6 to 2d6 (what you get from going from a the biggest Simple slashing weapon to the biggest Martial Slashing weapon).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMcS
    You don't need to be using a whacky weapon to do rediculous damage with Whirling Blade. You just need to power attack with a two-handed weapon, and possibly Wraithstrike (Complete Adventurer?), which makes your attacks ignore armor, natural armor, and shields. Raising your greatsword from 2d6 to 3d6 is hardly worth the effort, at that point.
    Don't forget that you can arguably use Arcane Strike with whirling blade as well.

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    Ditto for Wraithstrike.
    Wraithstrike is one of the most broken spells ever made by WotC. It is 2nd level, a swift action, and makes your entire round of attacks count as touch attacks (hello Power Attack!). If your GM allows it, it would be foolish not to take this with an Eldritch Knight gish. However, be wary, as it may convince your GM not to allow Complete-series stuff if he is that restrictive

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    In no particular order:

    Don't forget that you can arguably use Arcane Strike with whirling blade as well.
    How? It was my reading of the feat (which could be wrong) that you channel a single spell's energy into a single melee attack- the first in how many ever iterative attacks you have, if you have any. A conservative reading of the interaction of such the feat with that spell would say you lose the ability to channel that energy through the weapon as soon as you throw it. A more expansive reading would only allow it on the first strike of the weapon thrown. Knowing my GM as I do, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go further than that.

    Wraithstrike is in which sourcebook again?

    Oh, and you probably missed/forgot- no PrCls- Core Base classes only.

    Power Attack, regardless of weapon choice, will probably not be on the list- there are too many other Feats that help optimize other spells the Myrskytar Keitolainen will have. Furthermore, a PC with mostly D4 HD won't get much use out of the Feat except with this spell. Besides, its unliikely he'll even have the stats for it. I have to prioritize Cha of course, and Dex will be second for AC and ranged attack (arrows, grenade-like weapons & ranged touch attack spells) purposes. AFAIK, we're using 4d6 drop lowest for stat generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    How? It was my reading of the feat (which could be wrong) that you channel a single spell's energy into a single melee attack- the first in how many ever iterative attacks you have, if you have any. A conservative reading of the interaction of such the feat with that spell would say you lose the ability to channel that energy through the weapon as soon as you throw it. A more expansive reading would only allow it on the first strike of the weapon thrown. Knowing my GM as I do, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go further than that.
    I believe it affects a single melee weapon for one round, and affects all attacks made by that weapon in that round. Need to confirm against the text in Complete Warrior, though.

    Wraithstrike is in which sourcebook again?
    Complete Adventurer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    In no particular order:
    How? It was my reading of the feat (which could be wrong) that you channel a single spell's energy into a single melee attack- the first in how many ever iterative attacks you have, if you have any. A conservative reading of the interaction of such the feat with that spell would say you lose the ability to channel that energy through the weapon as soon as you throw it. A more expansive reading would only allow it on the first strike of the weapon thrown. Knowing my GM as I do, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go further than that.
    Arcane strike = bonus on all of your attack rolls (= to the level of the spell sacrificed) for 1 round as well as xd4(x=spell's level) damage to each attack. There is no way to enterpret this feat to apply to only the first attack. This feat is a must for gish because their to hit will lag behind a fighter and this can make that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    Wraithstrike is in which sourcebook again?.
    It's in Complete Arcane. Everyone keeps saying how hidiously broken this spell is, but I just haven't seen it. I've played a Gish to 9th level (ftr 1/wiz6/KP3) so far: at early levels the I was better off with a scorching ray and even at 9th its a close call. The one time I got off the "big combo" (full power attack, wraithstrike and arcane strike a 3rd level spell) I equelled but did not exceed the damage I've routenely seen the raging barbarian do. At high levels the damage will be better - but so will many other things (and don't even talk about persisting it I have better things to do with 2 feats and limited 8th level spells).


    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    Oh, and you probably missed/forgot- no PrCls- Core Base classes only.
    I think your DM is being a bit short sighted by allowing no prestige classes, but hey it's his game. Since he is allowing some splat books, show him the Duskblade from PHBII it's not core but it is a "base class" and fits your concept pretty well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
    Power Attack, regardless of weapon choice, will probably not be on the list- there are too many other Feats that help optimize other spells the Myrskytar Keitolainen will have. Furthermore, a PC with mostly D4 HD won't get much use out of the Feat except with this spell. Besides, its unliikely he'll even have the stats for it. I have to prioritize Cha of course, and Dex will be second for AC and ranged attack (arrows, grenade-like weapons & ranged touch attack spells) purposes. AFAIK, we're using 4d6 drop lowest for stat generation.
    If you're going for range, power attack is a waste of a feat. Then again, wraithstrike and arcane strike aren't to usefull at range either. On whirling blade - I've been underwelmed by this spell. I tried it a few times, but for it to really shine conditions have to be near perfect, and I've fallen away from using this spell.

    just some thoughts

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    New and interesting developments...

    After sending him a little info on my concept, he came up with this set of suggestions:

    Make Myrskytar Keitolainen an Air Genasi (didn't think he'd let us do that) to incorporate the "stormy" side of his nature, and start him at Arcane Caster1/Ftr1...and sub the familiar for 2 special abilities- Armored Spellcasting and some version of Monkey Grip/Powerful Build.

    Its not quite a Half-Elf with a trace of Storm Giant blood, but I am OK with this. I just have to decide whether the benefits of being an armored Sorcerer with a lot of spells & flexibility is outweighed by the hit to Charisma. Specialist Mage would give me nearly as many spells, but I couldn't Meta them on the fly, yada, yada, yada.

    I'll add Wraithstrike to the list of spells to consider- its powerful, but I'm really leaning towards the ranged attacks- ray & orb touch spells; sculpted cones, balls, and lines of others. The big weapon is mainly for the PC backstory, the Whirling Blade spell shaped as the situation calls, as well as for *ahem* personal defense- especially with the Arcane Strike feat. Personally, I think that spell will do a decent job of clearing away mooks for the big boys in front, or at least dinging them a little...as well as hopefully disrupting a spell or 2.
    As for the PHBII stuff: I bought the book the day it was released, and he borrowed it from me a few days later. I just got it back last week, after he said he wasn't using it.

    Still, things aren't bad- I'm sitting here with racial abilities, Arcane Caster1/Ftr1, Lt. armored spellcasting, a big weapon, and a revised list of feats which needs to be pared down to the 9 he'll take over time:

    1) Point Blank Shot (improve utility of his archery & ranged touch spells)
    2) Precise Shot (improve utility of his archery & ranged touch spells)
    3) Weapon Focus: Ranged Touch Spells
    4) Energy Substitution: Electrical (bump number of electrical spells)
    5) Ranged Spell Specialization (further improve accuracy with ranged touch spells)
    6) Empower Spell (50% increase in variables related to a spell, inc. damage)
    7) Sculpt Spell (change spell's area of effect)
    8) Battle Caster (now that my PC will have Armored Spellcasting: Light)
    9) Arcane Strike (channel spell energy into melee strikes- based on spell level)*
    10) Split Ray (doubles # of rays from a ray spell)
    11) Reach Spell (makes touch spells into ranged touch spells)
    12) Combat Casting (utility)
    13) Energy Admixture (a little jolt in EVERY attack spell)

    In paring this down to 9, I'm thinking Admixture is an early one for the chopping block, but what about Split Ray and Reach Spell?

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