Gygaxian Memes

riprock

First Post
Unfortunately it looks like I missed the chance to ask the Colonel himself what he might think of these during the recent Q&A.

However, for your comments/criticisms/refinements, I present what I believe to be the Gygaxian Memes.

(Meme is a buzzword for exciting ideas that seem to take over folks' thinking.)

Rule #1: Realism is limited to the level of a ripping yarn. The game will make some weird and arbitrary approximations for playability (such as experience points for adventuring instead of for training), and the whole thing will have simple math, not a detailed statistical spreadsheet. This is imagination, not military history or any other serious topic. (This rule runs contrary to the design philosophies of Marc Miller and Steve Jackson, IMHO.)

Rule #2: The DM will not give very large amounts of detail about the world so that players can investigate it like scientists and exploit its natural laws like engineers. The world is detailed -- it has backstory and often it has illustrations and maps. The world has neat interactive puzzles and weird monsters with special powers and behaviors. But the world is not meant to be understood, it is meant for ripping yarns of high adventure. The players are not investigators, they are swashbuckling risk-takers. (I think Arneson published an anecdote about how his players tried to build steam engines but always failed; eventually they learned to trust magic swords.)

Rule #3: Even if an analysis of a game phenomenon is possible, the nature of the phenomenon is frequently determined by a random table that is sufficiently wacky to prevent effective exploitation. (This can severely frustrate physicists and engineers at the table, since it runs counter to their real-life intuitions. It can also frustrate hardcore military gamers, since real-life history of warfare often includes learning the enemy's tricks. The coolest stuff frequently is not analyzable or reproducible, e.g. a set of stone cogwheels that trigger an exotic door cannot be copied or imitated. The DM can spring numerous tactics on the party (including ambush, bizarre technology, etc.) but refuse to allow the party to learn and use the same tricks. Some tricks, like animating zombies, can simply be ruled off-limits.)

Rule #4: It's really cool to give the party a surface description and let them try to search, asking for more detail. Magic items often require extensive research into command words. This assumes that a party is willing to take the time to do the searching. Many players are not patient enough. Many DMs don't communicate well. (This is where less personal, more standardized experiences like "World of Warcraft" gain a foothold.)

Rule #5: It's cool to hand the party a problem such as how to transport bulky treasure. (This frustrates many folks so much that many DMs give highly portable treasure in order to skip past this problem. This has inspired games like Dungeon Siege, where the most distinctive element is the fact that most parties have at least one packmule.)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I'm not really sure those are memes, but they certainly seem to be Gygaxian design principles.

And I never thought of Dungeon Siege as Gygaxian, but you're right. I guess it's telling that I love the very notion of pack mules in that game and got happy when I saw (non-functional) ones added to World of Warcraft recently.
 

Ed_Laprade

Adventurer
Missing the Colonel in his Q&A thread doesn't mean you can't ask the question there. He shows up often to answer questions that have been posted while he's not on. (He's a busy guy!)
 

ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
Ed_Laprade said:
Missing the Colonel in his Q&A thread doesn't mean you can't ask the question there. He shows up often to answer questions that have been posted while he's not on. (He's a busy guy!)

Yeah, you didn't "miss out." Gary is a regular here. The current Q&A thread is the 10th or 11th, of the ones that have survived. He's been posting here for years, and there are a lot of long, involved threads where he posted that have evaporated into the internet ether. Post your questions in his current thread. Quite often you'll even catch him online and be able to banter back and forth in "real time."
 

riprock

First Post
ColonelHardisson said:
Yeah, you didn't "miss out." Gary is a regular here. The current Q&A thread is the 10th or 11th, of the ones that have survived. He's been posting here for years, and there are a lot of long, involved threads where he posted that have evaporated into the internet ether. Post your questions in his current thread. Quite often you'll even catch him online and be able to banter back and forth in "real time."

For everyone else, I should preface all of them with a bit more explanation.

I think the great names of role-playing are massively influential, and Gygax is the single most influential person. In fact, I annoy a lot of folks by saying that if only Gygax had done X, Y, or Z differently, we would live in a different world. (Most folks say I'm pinning way too much weight on the shoulders of one creator. Also, I'm sure that there's some work of fantasy fiction that I would place in the category of Gygax-inspired works and the Colonel himself would say, "Look, I never wrote anything for Fiction X, and I feel it's boring junk, please don't associate my name with it." So I want to phrase these things carefully.)

The meme thing is more of a lead-in to comparisons with (e.g.) Steve Jackson, Marc Miller, and Rein*Hagen. It's also relevant to areas which might bore some folks -- engineering simulations and technical training. Both of those are more about accuracy than fun, but in terms of judgement calls and imaginary worlds, they can get very similar.

But if you think the Colonel will take an interest, I'd be happy to post these observations there as well.
 


ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
riprock said:
But if you think the Colonel will take an interest, I'd be happy to post these observations there as well.

If you want his direct feedback, then that would be the thing to do. He seems open to discussing just about anything.
 

riprock

First Post
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I get your point, but I still say those aren't memes. ;)

I suspect a lot of folks will continue to tell me that I'm way out in left field for this. There might be something worth discussing here, there might not. I might be stupid, I might be otherwise.
 

RFisher

Explorer
riprock said:
Rule #1: Realism is limited to the level of a ripping yarn.

Of course, there's sometimes a bit of a dichotomy between the Gygax you meet in his published works (especially the TSR era stuff) & the Gygax you meet on messageboards or in person. e.g. The published oD&D & oAD&D games didn't really match the way he ever played either game. & that's not even considering subtle aspects of play that might never have made it onto the page.

Of course, Gygax will immediately dismiss the notion of realism in a fantasy game with wizards & dragons.

But to me, a Gygaxian game casts the referee in the role of living rulebook. The written rules need not be perfect. The written rules are merely a framework that the referee should overrule in the interests of fun & a certain level of versimilitude. At least, that's the impression I get from some of his writings, his comments online, & tales from those who've gamed with him.
 

riprock

First Post
RFisher said:
Of course, there's sometimes a bit of a dichotomy between the Gygax you meet in his published works (especially the TSR era stuff) & the Gygax you meet on messageboards or in person. e.g. The published oD&D & oAD&D games didn't really match the way he ever played either game. & that's not even considering subtle aspects of play that might never have made it onto the page.

Of course, Gygax will immediately dismiss the notion of realism in a fantasy game with wizards & dragons.

Very true.

There's a bit of a culture gap: I grew up with programmable calculators. I had to be logical, even if my premises were downright bizarre. So I tend to push logic to extremes that are untenable except when dealing with computers.


RFisher said:
But to me, a Gygaxian game casts the referee in the role of living rulebook. The written rules need not be perfect. The written rules are merely a framework that the referee should overrule in the interests of fun & a certain level of versimilitude. At least, that's the impression I get from some of his writings, his comments online, & tales from those who've gamed with him.

That's a pretty good summary. That style works great if the DM is skilled and the players are receptive. That's not always the case.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top