Spell: Benign Transposition (Aproved)
Rystil Arden
First Post
This spell is not really "overpowered" , but I happen to dislike the super-low level dimensional transportation spells due to the precedent that a Wizard can perform a dimensional transportation that is magically more or equally powerful to a Dimension Door at level 1 simply because the metagame utility of the spell is lower. It begs the question "If he can swap them both, why can't he make a spell of the same level that just puts the one guy where the second one is?"
Patlin
Explorer
Rystil Arden said:
Non-metagame answer: The primary difficulty with dimensional transport is the safety measures needed to prevent two objects from sharing the same space. It's somewhat simpler to swap two solid objects, as each one "secures" the space in which the other arrives. The space, which allready had something in it, puts up less resistance than otherwise empty space would. Additionally, the laws of similarity come into play when swapping two willing beings, significantly lessening the magical inertia.
Personally, the meta-game reason seems more important to me...
Rystil Arden
First Post
Meta-game reasons are important too, but, for instance, I would be against a first level spell that was mechanically identical to Magic Missile but had the flavour "You summon one Lord of Dust to your location, plus another Lord of Dust per 2 levels above first. Each Lord of Dust attacks a target of your choice for 1d4+1 damage, no save or attack roll allowed, and then it vanishes back from whence it came."
That in-game explanation is funny and clever, but even in a world of magic it makes no sense and doesn't explain why I couldn't swap the target with a rock on the ground, for instance. I don't like it because I don't think it's an effect that low-level casters should be able to create, though it is highly unlikely that it will cause problems because you have to get someone to the place you want to go before you can use it. However, by allowing the effect, you are inviting someone to find a way to make it cause problems (though they admittedly have to be clever). An example came to mind just now: Animal Companion / Familiar beacons. You could send a flying familiar up to the top of some place and then Benign Transportation to switch yourself up, or send the familiar through a small hole and use Benign Transportation to get to the other side. It also makes it more difficult to correctly peg the level of new spells that have a dimensional travel effect.
That in-game explanation is funny and clever, but even in a world of magic it makes no sense and doesn't explain why I couldn't swap the target with a rock on the ground, for instance. I don't like it because I don't think it's an effect that low-level casters should be able to create, though it is highly unlikely that it will cause problems because you have to get someone to the place you want to go before you can use it. However, by allowing the effect, you are inviting someone to find a way to make it cause problems (though they admittedly have to be clever). An example came to mind just now: Animal Companion / Familiar beacons. You could send a flying familiar up to the top of some place and then Benign Transportation to switch yourself up, or send the familiar through a small hole and use Benign Transportation to get to the other side. It also makes it more difficult to correctly peg the level of new spells that have a dimensional travel effect.
Bront
The man with the probe
Well the easy (delayed) out is that if you can't say what other book it's in (there are some SC only spells), SC isn't up for vote yet since it's not been out 6 months.
My problem, is that I don't have said book, so I can't realy say much. I do sorta agree with the metagaming aspects of it, as well as the logistics of it vs other effects, but power wise I don't see it as too rampant, particularly if you clairify it as beings of similar size (IE, within one size catagory)
My problem, is that I don't have said book, so I can't realy say much. I do sorta agree with the metagaming aspects of it, as well as the logistics of it vs other effects, but power wise I don't see it as too rampant, particularly if you clairify it as beings of similar size (IE, within one size catagory)
IcyCool
First Post
Patlin's in-game explanation sounds great to me.
The effect is swapping the position of two willing subjects. Just as the effect of your magic missile description above is to deal 1d4+1 points of force damage to a target or targets per every 3 levels. It seems to me like you are almost equating the flavor text with the effect, and you shouldn't. I may be wrong on that though.
At the risk of sounding sarcastic, why must we avoid anything that makes a familiar more than a 200gp liability?
*shrug* I'm not sure this spell is out of line, power-wise. Yes, with the aid of a familiar, you can duplicate some of the effects of a couple of 1st and 2nd level spells (spider climb and levitate, for the send familiar up to rooftop, benign transposition yourself up there trick). Maybe a restriction on the size of the targets is in order?
Rystil Arden said:
The effect is swapping the position of two willing subjects. Just as the effect of your magic missile description above is to deal 1d4+1 points of force damage to a target or targets per every 3 levels. It seems to me like you are almost equating the flavor text with the effect, and you shouldn't. I may be wrong on that though.
Rystil Arden said:
At the risk of sounding sarcastic, why must we avoid anything that makes a familiar more than a 200gp liability?
*shrug* I'm not sure this spell is out of line, power-wise. Yes, with the aid of a familiar, you can duplicate some of the effects of a couple of 1st and 2nd level spells (spider climb and levitate, for the send familiar up to rooftop, benign transposition yourself up there trick). Maybe a restriction on the size of the targets is in order?
Patlin
Explorer
IcyCool said:
That's a pretty good point. (And also funny!)
I've had this spell memorized in my face to face game for several sessions now, and I feel pretty safe saying that the circumstances in which it is usefull rarely occur. It's pretty cool when the circumstances are just right, but usually at the end of the day it's the spell I haven't used.
Here are the good circumstances I've thought of:
1) Swap with the familiar to get somewhere you otherwise couldn't reach (through a hole, up to a height, etc.)
2) Get a weak (or damaged) party member out of melee range and a stronger member into it
3) Escape a grapple, with a cetain sacrifice. If one is around, great time to swap places with a summoned monster.
Rystil Arden
First Post
I agree that the circumstances (especially 2 and 3) rarely occur, which is why it's metagame not a gamebreaker (to add to your combat options, don't forget the time-honoured tradition of switching the guy with Lion's Charge and a lance with someone who is at a distance so they both get full attacks and lance guy does extra damage. It needn't necessarily be a lance, really, just someone with pounce or lion's charge).Patlin said:
