Bard Power Build

Hi all,

Need some advice on the "ultimate" power build for a 15th level bard. I have never played one, don't know the 3.5 rules set well enough to take advantage of all of the "quirks", and synergies.

And yes...it is ok to twink this one out. The group that it would be joining has min/max players.

Power build a Bard...? Is that even possible? You're going to be a supporting character either way.

MadMaxim said:

Power build a Bard...? Is that even possible? You're going to be a supporting character either way.

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Only to the extent that illusionists or enchanters are support characters. I suspect a narrowly focused bard could be quite potent, if they were focused sufficiently.

I'd also take a look at the Fochlucan Lyrist PrC from Complete Adventurer. By the time they're most of the way through that PrC, it's a pretty solid character with a lot of different abilities.

It's either a bard or a rogue...the party has neither. They have a lot of wizards and fighter types so I don't think I would have to be a front line guy. Also, I probably won't be able to attend every session so a supporting player wouldn't be too bad.

I had given thought to a rogue/bard split...a Don Juan type character who woos the ladies and then slips out with their jewels while they thank him for the privilege.

at 15th level its possible - you just need the complete arcane (PrC sublime Cord) and a spell or two from complete adventurer.

You need to dedicate 48 skill points and 10 levels to bard. (to meet sublime cord requirements)
this is about half your skill points - but it does include for 10 ranks in perform. No feats required.

SuC are great spell casters
3/3/3/3/2/0 Bard (10th)
0/0/0/0/3/3/2/1 sublime cord (up to 7th ! )

your sublime cord spells can be drawn from either bard or wizard - take advantage of Ottos dance as a 6th level spell.

The spell I like from CAdv is Insperational Boost (add +1 to hit and dmg to inspire vigor) 1st lvl

My advice?

Charisma 18 (+from levels)
Max Use Magic Device
SF: Use Magic Device
Magical Aptitude

Twink out on whatever magic item you want. Add Sleight of Hand to use anyone's magic item at any time. Scroll of Wish, anyone?

Evilhalfling nailed it.

I've actually been working on a 15th level bard build in Eberron. My main goal was to build a fun, reasonably playable pure buff character. Eberron just opens up a lot of options for this build (and has a mighty useful feat for bards).

Bard 8, Marshal 3, sublime cord 1, heir of syberith (sp?) 3.

If you aren't using multi-class penalties you go as a halfing with the S. mark of healing. Take Arcane Strike and Practiced spell caster. Take the "+1" to bard singing feat (as a replacement for suggestion most likely, allowed in Eberron). Take as Marshal minor auras the bonus to damage when flanking and the bonus to caster level for SR. Max out CHR. Be sure to learn the "Ruins ????" spell from the Spell Compendium. Great defensive spell (you will need it, this build is weak on the D). If you DM allows pearls of power for a spon. caster, grab a handful of 1st level ones. Worst case, you can use them for arcane strike.

You end up adding +4 to all attacks and damage in the party, +7 (addional) damage to attacks when flanking (or +7 to the party to overcome SR). In combat you are fairly weak, but you are casting 6th level spells as a 15th level caster (only one level behind a sorc!). You can cast mass heal 2/day. You have a crazy number of action points.

Any reasonable party will become twice as effective with you in the party. All casters? Giving +7 (or +8) to overcome SR will make them much more powerful. All warriors? +4 attack, +11 damage when flanking is crazy huge. And you can use the SR bonus to help overcome SR for your own spells (or help your flanking damage).

The biggest problem is that you can run through spells so quickly and a grapple can really ruin your day. You can burn out a 15th level caster in 2 fights without much work (2 spells per round, every round, more if you are burning spells for arcane strike in the hopes of an attack of oppertunity). S.C.'s don't have a lot of spells... Also, a ring of free action and a mount are really helpful in the grapple thing.

There are lots of builds here, but one involving a spiked chain has a lot of potential. The Talenta Warrior feat might be a different way to go (with all the action points). That build calls for leadership to get an awoken mount. I'm sure there are others.

If you don't need/want both minor auras, consider dropping a level of marshal and picking up a level of dragon shaman.

Outside of Eberron? The bard/marshal/dragon shaman/sublime cord build works. Paladin/bard/SC also isn't a poor option if you take the Complete Adventurer feat that allows the combination.

Mark

The group doesn't have a Rogue, you say?

I would therefore recommend Rogue over Bard.

The trick on the bard that most people seem to overlook is that to be rather badass, don't try to focus on doing some other classes' job - focus on your barding.

Song of the Heart feat (+1 to just about everything bardic music. Inspire Courage goes up by +1, Inspire Comp is now +3 instead of +2, Inspire Greatness now grants 3hd instead of 2, etc). Particularly of note is Inspire Greatness - those hit dice are ablative and benefit from the target's con mod. And at 15th level you'll have up to 15 uses of it per day...

Inspirational Boost spell. A 1st level swift bard spell that slaps another +1 on to your Inspire Courage. Inspire Courage is like voltron - the more you pile on the better it gets.

Lyric Spell feat. Lets you trade in bardic music uses per day for a spell. Extra mojo on demand is ver' nice.

Extra Music feat. +4 additional music per day each time you take the feat. Then take into account Lyric Spell and Inspire Greatness and you can see where this is going.

Lingering Notes. Your music now lasts for 10 rounds after you stop singing instead of the regular 5. Very useful. Frees you up to do other things without having to worry about re-musicing right away.

Fascinate/Suggestion. If you're out of combat, people are your plaything. The will save DC is your perform check result for god's sake. Nobody's going to make that. We're talking 30s-40s without even trying.

For your spells, look at healing, enhancing spells (haste is a cherry, for example), and enfeebling spells (slow, dominate person, dispel magic, modify memory, etc - bestow curse was a personal fave until they took it off the bard list in 3.5).

Oh, and you have free whip prof. Don't forget that. Can come in handy.

Bards may only have 3/4ths BAB, but give 'em a few seconds humming When Johnny Comes Marching Home and all of a sudden he's gone from +11 to +19 BAB (not to mention 3d10 extra HD, a bonus to saves, and +5 damage) at 15th level. Base. Before stat mods and the like. Scoff not.

Evilhalfling said:

SuC are great spell casters
3/3/3/3/2/0 Bard (10th)
0/0/0/0/3/3/2/1 sublime cord (up to 7th ! )

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Actually, Sublime Chord casting goes up to 9th level spells. Their list begins with 4th level spells.

And their increased "bardic" type abilities aren't too shabby either. But this route definitely emphasizes magic over skill-monkey, which might be a problem without a rogue in the party.