There is no black and white answer to the question.John Drake said:Hey there Gary, how are things going?
Well, the other day I was having a discussion with a buddy of mine about AD&D and all that, which edition we liked better and so forth. Anyway, at one point, my pal there says that back in the seventies and early eighties, in general, it was not expected for gamers to have there campaings go over the level of 12 or 13. His excuses were that you guys who designed the game figured most people would just start over again, with a new character, because the system was not designed to handle high level games. His words, not mineAnywho, I found that to be rather odd, since in the PHB it clearly gives XP goals for up to 20th level. So I figured I'd ask you: was AD&D designed to handle high level campaings or not? I always felt it was, only because I had participated in campaigns that did so. An odd question to be sure, but as always, your time and patience is always appreciated. Thanks! Incidentally, this branch of our discussion started when critiquing the Dragonlance modules converting from 1st to 2nd ed. Ciao!
airwalkrr said:Actually, in the 1e PH, there is no real limit on levels (except for certain classes like the druid or monk). And as for class charts, the table for the magic-user goes all the way up to 18th (29th for the purpose of spells)! It sure seems to me like Gary & co. wanted the game to be playable at higher levels. I am certain the Master shall be able to deliver a far more elegant answer of course.
The expansion of non-human PC level limits covered in Unearthed Arcana was to facilitate their play in higher-level camoaigns. For example, an elven fighter/magic-user/thief of 5/9/12 level equates to around 19th level.haakon1 said:
Col_Pladoh said:
Real noobs always began at 1st level. More experienced players that were joining up with the main regulars for some special adventure might begin with new PCs of 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th level. They were not missing anything, certainly, as they had already worked one or more PCs to that level and above.haakon1 said:
No problem with that.haakon1 said:
Then one must perforce assume your world was dominated by non-humans as demi-human racial factors made them generally superior to humans overall...airwalkrr said:Oh yea, I forgot about those cuz we never used 'em.
Col_Pladoh said:There is no black and white answer to the question.
The fact is that most of the veterans started new PCs when their current one got to around 13th to 15th level. The "retired". high-level PCs remained as the "big guns" to be brought out when something special threatened, served as mentors, and sometimes as semi-NPCs for the use of the DM. Although I did not play intensley with Mordenkainen after he hit 16th level, the occasional adventures he undertook worked his level upwards into the 20s. As I had the privilege of having several very able DMs, there was never a problem with adventures being too easy--quite the opposite, as is demonstrable in Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure
That said, I had a large roster of PCs that were from 4th through 10th level for "regular: adventures.
It was not so much a matter of the game system not being able to manage PCs of levels into the upper teens and 20s, as there being not much in the way of modules to assist new DMs in handling high-level campaign play. Thus "retirement" was encouraged.
Cheers,
Gary
