Gary Gygax Q&A: Part XII - Page 22


What's on your mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcas
    Btw, I believe the "lawful" in "lawful good" does not refer to laws as such, since laws can be unjust, but the elevation of the good of the group over that of the individual. IOW, a paladin might fight against laws permitting prostitution, etc., as being bad for society as a whole.
    I agree about the morality, but I specifically asked the DM how open the institution of prostitution was in the game. He said it was both legal and widespread. I figured my paladin would not pursue it seeing it as somewhat morally shady, but not try to stop the other party members into engaging in the activity.

    As for the sneaky stuff, we often go against enemies strong enough that a frontal attack is unwise.
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    Gary, what were the more memorable paladins that you've seen played?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Traveler
    Gary, what were the more memorable paladins that you've seen played?
    Heh,

    There were only a few played in my campaign, but there were two that were remarkable,

    That played by Don Arndt was the most cautious one I have ever experienced or heard of. His behavior was so remarkable that the Artifict, "Invulnerable coat of Arn" was created to jape at such play.

    The most paladin-like PC in the campaign was played by Mark Ratner with Aylerach, a paragon of bravery and virtue. He was duped into freeing the demon Fraz-Urbluu from his prison in Greyhawk Castle, the delighted demon carrying both he and Erac back to his home in the Abyss as a reward. Sadly, both of Erac's Vorpal Blades alng with Aylerach's two-handed +5 Holy Avenger turned into useless bars of iron there. Although both PCS were reutrned to the PMP, neither was very pleased with me as their DM for that adventure.


    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    Heh,

    There were only a few played in my campaign, but there were two that were remarkable,

    That played by Don Arndt was the most cautious one I have ever experienced or heard of. His behavior was so remarkable that the Artifict, "Invulnerable coat of Arn" was created to jape at such play.

    The most paladin-like PC in the campaign was played by Mark Ratner with Aylerach, a paragon of bravery and virtue. He was duped into freeing the demon Fraz-Urbluu from his prison in Greyhawk Castle, the delighted demon carrying both he and Erac back to his home in the Abyss as a reward. Sadly, both of Erac's Vorpal Blades alng with Aylerach's two-handed +5 Holy Avenger turned into useless bars of iron there. Although both PCS were reutrned to the PMP, neither was very pleased with me as their DM for that adventure.


    Gary
    Ouch. Gary, what did those poor paladins ever do to you? And here I thought you enjoyed making that class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Traveler
    Ouch. Gary, what did those poor paladins ever do to you? And here I thought you enjoyed making that class.
    Actually, Erac was a dual class fighter/magic-user, the swordplay bit being learned when he was transported to Barsoom by a cursed scroll. He came down in the Land of Ugor, had to fend off the cannibals there, and soon Erac was a 1st level fighter. He made F6 on that alternate world Mars, IIRR, before finding a way back to Oerth so that his magic would again function.

    All I can add is that it is liukely a bad ides to play when both DMs are sipping Southern Comfort and seeking diversion from the ordinary...

    Cheers,
    Gary

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    I have a taste for Southern Comfort myself. Perhaps I'll bring a bottle or two if I'm able to make your next Con.

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    Quote Originally Posted by airwalkrr
    I quite like the three choices. I personally do not find execution beneath a paladin, especially when it is done in such a lawful manner in such a lawless area. I think you did a fine job of roleplaying.
    Nod. I agree. I think it's great role-playing, and that your DM is being "hard but fair" with having the villagers of Hommlett let off the bad guys in their trials.

    If I was DMing it, I'd have the lords of Hommlett -- the two guys in the tower -- be in charge of judging cases, and have no compunction at executing bandits. If I wanted to be complicated, I might say that lords can't deal out capital punishment, so they need to wait for a circuit judge to come for a trial, and I might have the circuit judge be corrupt. But jail breaks I wouldn't think about, as the prisoners would be in a deep, lightless hole in the underbelly of the tower.

    I like the idea of turning the Moathouse into your base. I did that in the computer game version (though other than staying there, I couldn't fix it up and change the map, it being a computer game). One thing to worry about is monsters returning to any parts you aren't watching closely, or "new secret doors" being discovered. Bwahahaha!

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    Haakon, we actually sent for a few priests from the nearest city to be help run our temple in the Moat House and took our gold and used almost all of it to hire the men to guard it from monsters coming back in and make band-aid repairs to the wall for now. And yes, we are scared about secret entrances that we have not yet found. We sealed up one with a tunnel by collapsing some stones...

    Gary, how did the idea for the Temple of Elemental Evil come out? It feels like a living, breathing world to a greater extent than Keep on the Borderlands. I suppose that's because the Keep was it's own internal environment, while the area around the Temple has a more diverse atmosphere due to the competing factions and interests. So far we've enjoyed it more, and the DM has also, especially because we're not the kind of party to stick with the storyline. We made the Moat House into a base, attacked some of the more actively evil people inside Nulb (town hates us now), tried to recruit our own spies among the people of Nulb, changed the pirates' ship into a floating thieves guild, and started a small chapel for Pelor while spreading the faith. And despite all this, the DM has done a decent job of taking the information provided and just running with it, which makes this, in my opinion, a well-designed module.

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    Gary,

    I have a question for you. A friend and I were comparing the stereotypical 3rd Ed D&D player mindset to that of players of 1st and 2nd Ed D&D. Specifically, that "today's gamer" (knowingly using and abusing the stereotype with full knowledge that not ALL players fit this mold) is much more prone to accepting the rules "as is" whereas in previous editions of the game, players and GMs were comparatively more willing to adjust or ignore a rule if it didn't suit them. This player attitude is in stark contrast to the fact that the D20 system is technically much easier to modify than the older editions were. A bit of a paradox really, the more adaptable and modular the rules became, the more "rules obedient" the average player has become - to the point that many "3 Ed only" gamers today assume without giving it a second thought that if the rules say "x", then no matter what, you play it that way.

    Of course, the population of EnWorld does not usually fit this standard. For one, many of them have been playing since before 3ed, and are often much more willing to tinker with the rules and use them as guidelines, not laws. Yet even here I will still ocassionally see players lamenting that D20 is too complicated and that there are too many rules to obey... Apparently the act of simply not using a set of supplementary rules you disagree with has become a foreign concept. My friend and I realised though why this was the case. We realised why players are less able to intuitively 'mix and match" their rules, despite using a system that is more geared towards such than ever before.

    The idea of "Rule 0" has become VASTLY reduced in prominence since the release of 3rd Ed D&D. One could even say it has been excised from the inherent philosophy of how one uses the rules. What was once presented as a set of guidelines that were only as valid as the desires of the GM and the enjoyment of the players is now being presented as "The Way Things Are Done"(TM). This has deeply influenced the newer generations of players in how they view the proper application of and subservience to The Rules As Written. Even supplimentary varient rules are treated as "take as directed" sources of additional mandatory rules. Frankly, I think that the lack of a "rule zero" in D&D 3.5 is it's largest failing.

    Having said all of that... (P.S. thank you for your patience thus far!) If you were to write Rule Zero now with the current crop of new, young players in mind, people who've never played anything older than the "outdated" D20 3.0, just how would YOU phrase this idea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Traveler
    I have a taste for Southern Comfort myself. Perhaps I'll bring a bottle or two if I'm able to make your next Con.
    Okay...

    Now and then I am not above mixing Southern Comfort with straight bourbon over ice...

    Cheers,
    Gary

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