Gothic Games

Stormborn · Sep 18, 2006

With the new Raveloft adventure coming out, and having seen Johnny Depp in Sleepy Hollow this weekend on cable, I have been thinking about "Gothic" settings and games. Whether its Ravenloft, Homebrew, d20 M, Savage World "Rippers" or something else I would love to hear what you may have done as a player or a GM in a Gothic setting.

Moon-Lancer · Sep 18, 2006

well i think ravenloft is a your best bet for gothic d20, unless you want to go with world of darkness. Im playing in a ravenloft game right now, and the dm is using her own campain world, and having the mist of ravenloft slowly creep into the lands. She is also adding lots of fairy tails and storyies and giving them a dark twist. As a charicter, im still trying to go for that gothic feel, but i dont think im doing as well as i would like. Like the op, any one have any suggestions, thats not just, be cold and depressing

?

Byrons_Ghost · Sep 18, 2006

Moon-Lancer said:
well i think ravenloft is a your best bet for gothic d20, unless you want to go with world of darkness. Im playing in a ravenloft game right now, and the dm is using her own campain world, and having the mist of ravenloft slowly creep into the lands. She is also adding lots of fairy tails and storyies and giving them a dark twist. As a charicter, im still trying to go for that gothic feel, but i dont think im doing as well as i would like. Like the op, any one have any suggestions, thats not just, be cold and depressing ?

What sort of character are you playing?

Modern horror roleplaying often seems to assume that the PCs have to be deranged madmen or evil sorcerers or something. In Gothic settings, this would only be true of the villains. The protagonists would be more or less good people, who are confronted by supernatural evil through little fault of their own, or through circumstances beyond their control. Family curses, insane or monstrous relatives, and haunted inheritences, are the sort of things they end up facing.

So, really, you don't want to mess up your PC in the beginning, unless it's throwing some appropriate plot hooks into the background. Instead, you want the DM to mess you up over time.

malladin · Sep 18, 2006

Though I've mainly used ideas from it for other settings, Hunt The Rise of Evil is good gothic fantasy with gaimen-esque ties to the modern world through dreams. Though the mechanics are a mess in places, but it is an early 3rd ed product, its a good setting with nice ideas and dark flavour.

Nigel

Aus_Snow · Sep 19, 2006

I've played very little, and run only a couple of things, in this genre.

I believe some system/settings could lend themselves fairly well to it, though they're not designed with "gothic" specifically in mind (as far as I'm aware).

To summarise, it's more about the 'how' than the 'what' with some genres, I think.

trancejeremy · Sep 19, 2006

The most recent Dungeon Crawl Classic, #34, Cage of Delirium has a rather gothic sort of feel. It's set in a haunted insane asylum. Which is very creepy, but I'm not sure how many D&D settings that would fit in.

I say gothic, but it's actually got a more 18th-19th century sort of of vibe, I guess Victorian. Though that's when "Gothic novels" came out, so I guess that is gothic. Confusing term.

Anyway, neat module, but it had me thinking about does D&D really do "Gothic" well? You sort of have to tweak the rules a lot to get rid of all the good spells and such, because for a Gothic atmosphere you really need sort of a opressive sense of gloom and lack of goodness/light. And things like like halflings and gnomes and elves don't fit. At least not the D&D concepts of them - creepy, mysterious elves might fit.

(Actually, now that I think about it, I think they did all that for Ravenloft...)

InVinoVeritas · Sep 19, 2006

Gothic is not about horror, but about beauty.

For there to be innocence lost, there must first be innocence.
For the angels to fall, there must first be angels.
For hell to reign, there must also be heaven.

Horror without hope is despair. Despair is not interesting. It is frustrating, dull, dreary. There is no reason to fight, to act, to care. There is no adventure, no feeling, no calling. More dangerously, when someone knows they can't win, then they can do whatever else they want. Fear disappears.

True fear, true horror, can only happen if there is hope. When the beast is looking for your hiding place, the fear only comes because you might live another day. When the world calls you mad, you hold to your beliefs because you still know you're sane. It is only because there is the slightest possibility of success that there is any reason at all to fear loss.

Consider Stezen D'Polarno from Ravenloft. Before he became the Dark Lord of Ghastria, he was a ruthless politician and astoundingly charismatic statesman who had many assassinated and many more lives ruined. His king, fearing him, had his personality drained and trapped in a portrait. Without his vibrancy, his power waned. However, when Ravenloft took him, it gave him back the ability to have his personality back for a few hours every season. Now, how could this be a curse? This would have to be the curse imposed on him, but he gets some of his power back. It is a curse because he recognizes what he could do. With even a few hours, he could pull together the will of his people. He could create wonderful works of art. He could marry. He could have everything he ever wanted for himself. But no. Every season, he falls into a stupor of depraved revelry, squandering his gift each and every time. His curse is not that he has lost his power--it is that he knows that he, and he alone, is the only reason he does not have it today.

That is the ray of light in the darkness. It is the light that causes the fear, not the darkness. That is Gothic.

InVinoVeritas · Sep 19, 2006

Hmm, maybe that was slightly too pedantic and poetic... here's more specific advice.

As a DM, focus on the beauty. Gothic horror is as much a morality play and a gorgeous setting as about unrelenting evil. Make sure that there are occasional true successes, occasional respites from unending doom, and beautiful scenery. As long as there is something worth fighting for, people won't stop fighting for it. As long as there is some good in the world, even just a small seed's worth, all the pain will be worth it and more pain will be welcomed.

As a player, find something for the PC to believe in. Find solace in some truth. Then let the DM stomp all over that truth. True Gothic horror is knowing, despite evil infiltrating every aspect of your existence, there is still some small part of the soul which is still free of its taint--but if you stop fighting, evil will overwhelm that small part, too. Note that this small part can change over time--if you believe that your parents are good people, then you discover that they are not, at least something in them was good enough to raise you. But maybe they're totally evil. Then, at least you've learned how to be good yourself. But maybe you were born to be evil, too. But, at least you aren't... Find that crux of belief and defend it constantly.

tonse · Sep 19, 2006

My main problem with gothic games, both as a player and DM, has always been to make the PCs matter. In such plot and mood-heavy games it is far to easy to forget what it is all about. So while all your handcrafted NPCs and ubergoth locations are certainly works of art, to say the least, the players simple should be able to be more than wide-eyed spectators.

Frostmarrow · Sep 19, 2006

I was going to bring up the contrast that Invino talks about above. Now I can only agree with him. It is a common mistake in gothic settings to make the world so bleak that it stops being scary. You need to have the day-lit green meadows to appreciate the gloom of the dark high-rising architecture. There must be love before it can be lost love. There must be roses to have thorns.