issue with the spell target: you/creature

Carrion_Buffet · Sep 25, 2006

Ok, small debate occured with my gaming group, about a interiptation of the rules on spell target: you and target creature.

The issue is this (quoted from the D20 SRD).

If the target of a spell is yourself (the spell description has a line that reads Target: You), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The Saving Throw and Spell Resistance lines are omitted from such spells.

This little bit has caused a stir as it has been stated that this implies that you can only caste spells on yourself that state Target: you...and if the spell is defines as Target : Creature, that this indecated you are not able to caste this on yourself. I have read through a number of the spells and their discriptions and have only found Feather Fall to make any reference to a caster being able to caste that spell on them selves. In fact one person states that makes it an exception to the rule. So spells like heal, cure light wounds, eagle splendor can not target the caster, because they state target: creature.

Any response to this would be of help....we have all been sitting around the same table, for 3 days now...guns drawn...help.....!

moritheil · Sep 25, 2006

Guns drawn? Find a new group.

I don't see the problem, as the caster is still a creature.

Carrion_Buffet · Sep 25, 2006

I agree, but this is being read as a exclusive rule; meaning that if the spell discriptor does not state "target:you" then it is only for others, not the caster. I disagree with this but they want prof....errrr!

moritheil · Sep 25, 2006

If the target of a spell is yourself (the spell description has a line that reads Target: You), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply.

Even assuming their interpretation is correct, that quoted text just means that you take it into consideration for SR and saves - not for whether or not you can cast the spell in the first place.

kenobi65 · Sep 25, 2006

Carrion_Buffet said:
This little bit has caused a stir as it has been stated that this implies that you can only caste spells on yourself that state Target: you...and if the spell is defines as Target : Creature, that this indecated you are not able to caste this on yourself.

Well, that's a new one.

You can target yourself with any spell that targets creatures, unless the target descriptor specifically disallows it (and I can't think of any spell that does, off the top of my head).

If those in your group are correct, it leads to crazy things like you mentioned...
- A cleric cannot cast a Cure spell on himself
- A wizard cannot cast Polymorph on himself
- A wizard cannot cast Fly on himself

All that line in the SRD is doing is explaining why there's no Save or SR noted for those few spells that can only target the caster (i.e., "you").

Carrion_Buffet · Sep 25, 2006

I agree, but I think they are taking this out of context. The first part of the line "If the target of the spell is yourself (target:you)" as an indecator that spells that do not include "you" in the target are excluded for being able to caste on yourself...silly I think, but they argue on...!

Personally I have always played that a target:creature spell meant that it can be cast on anything that was of the type creature, players, npcs, animals, many monsters, etc...

I will see if I can get these guys to log in a present their logic(?) to the forum. maybe that will put it to rest

moritheil · Sep 25, 2006

Involving an outside party is generally a horrible way to settle intraparty rules disputes, but it's your game.

Infiniti2000 · Sep 25, 2006

Carrion_Buffet said:
I agree, but I think they are taking this out of context. The first part of the line "If the target of the spell is yourself (target:you)" as an indecator that spells that do not include "you" in the target are excluded for being able to caste on yourself...silly I think, but they argue on...!

Personally I have always played that a target:creature spell meant that it can be cast on anything that was of the type creature, players, npcs, animals, many monsters, etc...

I will see if I can get these guys to log in a present their logic(?) to the forum. maybe that will put it to rest

Their interpretation is so ludicrous that it's seemingly a lost cause to even explain it to them. I'd strongly suggest finding a new group, unless these people are friends. And then, just smack them until they stop acting silly.

Nail · Sep 25, 2006

Just answer this question: "Is the caster a creature?"

If so, then the caster may cast spells with Target: One creature (or Target: Creature touched, or Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart, etc.) on himself.

No further rules-mongering is required.

Carrion_Buffet · Sep 25, 2006

moritheil said:
Involving an outside party is generally a horrible way to settle intraparty rules disputes, but it's your game.

Not at all. Many times a third party can be used to mediate an arguement between many. This is the main reason we have lawyers...well that and good jokes!