Monsters with class levels?

Wikidogre · Jul 15, 2002

just to refresh.....when making a monster with class levels, based they are intelligent enough, is thier HD considered the level equi. or the CR?

Crothian · Jul 15, 2002

Wikidogre said:
just to refresh.....when making a monster with class levels, based they are intelligent enough, is thier HD considered the level equi. or the CR?

Neither, sort of. There is an ecl that should have been printed in the MM, but it is in one of the Dragons.

Wikidogre · Jul 15, 2002

the reason that i ask, is that right now thier is a player in our group that is going to run an awakened ape, and i have never really touched on the subject, and want to make sure i get the level equiv correct. as far as i know i have been going by HD, mainly due to when i look on the WOTC site, at thier fight club, when they use a monster, it seems they only go by the creatures HD.

Crothian · Jul 15, 2002

With an awakened Ape, HD would be a good guess since apes don't have any pell like powers, or supernatural abilities.

Edit: Just curious, where in columbus are you?

Wikidogre · Jul 15, 2002

i live near morse rd and karl, but looking else where, kind of near riverside dr. to be closer to work. and you?

Crothian · Jul 15, 2002

Wikidogre said:
i live near morse rd and karl, but looking else where, kind of near riverside dr. to be closer to work. and you?

Darn, you're close by. I'm near Strawberry Farms, 161 east and 270. I too, am looking for a new place. Lease ius up soon and roommates are leaving the area.

Mr.Binx · Jul 16, 2002

CR is a really good determination of a creature's power. A good, although rough, estimate of an EL modifier for a PC is to take the creature's CR and multiply it by 1.5 and round down.

RogueJK · Jul 16, 2002

Wikidogre said:
just to refresh.....when making a monster with class levels, based they are intelligent enough, is thier HD considered the level equi. or the CR?

According to Dragon 293, an awakened ape is ECL +9. That's a little over 2x its HD, and 4.5x its CR.

You can't determine a creature's ECL by looking at CR or HD alone.

Mustrum_Ridcully · Jul 16, 2002

Don`t forget the ability score modifiers.
If the players wants to play a "standard" awakened ape, so he does not gain any points to spend or die rolls for his scores, than you might be a bit more generous in regard to ECL. NPC classed characters and monsters are genereted via 15 point-buy.

Mustrum Ridcully

Mr.Binx · Jul 16, 2002

RogueJK said:
According to Dragon 293, an awakened ape is ECL +9. That's a little over 2x its HD, and 4.5x its CR.

You can't determine a creature's ECL by looking at CR or HD alone.

I understand that. Hence the reason I used the phrase 'although rough'. Just a suggestion, not saying it's bible. CR is supposed to represent how challenging a creature is. If you use said formula it matches up with most monsters as listed in the DMG, MM, FR, and MoF with alot of the ELs given by Skip Williams in hardback pubs for use as PCs. Again, it is not precise, but I mainly liked it because it synched up well with the monster-man himself.