flaming sphere vs. invisibility

evilbob · Oct 27, 2006

The invisibility spell is broken acording to the following:

SRD said:
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

The spell flaming sphere has the following description:

SRD said:
Flaming Sphere
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: 5-ft.-diameter sphere
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

A burning globe of fire rolls in whichever direction you point and burns those it strikes. It moves 30 feet per round. As part of this movement, it can ascend or jump up to 30 feet to strike a target. If it enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals 2d6 points of fire damage to that creature, though a successful Reflex save negates that damage. A flaming sphere rolls over barriers less than 4 feet tall. It ignites flammable substances it touches and illuminates the same area as a torch would.

The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns. It can be extinguished by any means that would put out a normal fire of its size. The surface of the sphere has a spongy, yielding consistency and so does not cause damage except by its flame. It cannot push aside unwilling creatures or batter down large obstacles. A flaming sphere winks out if it exceeds the spell’s range.

The question becomes: since flaming sphere does not target a foe and the effect is listed as a sphere of fire (and not technically an offensive action), if you roll a flaming sphere into a square with an enemy does that constitute an attack as far as the invisibility spell is concerned and break the spell?

Dracorat · Oct 27, 2006

Yes.

or whose area or effect includes a foe

tomBitonti · Oct 27, 2006

evilbob said:
The question becomes: since flaming sphere does not target a foe and the effect is listed as a sphere of fire (and not technically an offensive action), if you roll a flaming sphere into a square with an enemy does that constitute an attack as far as the invisibility spell is concerned and break the spell?

I don't think that the spell or effect that breaks invisibility needs to be offensive.

For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.

Since the flaming sphere has an area of effect, moving that onto a foe should break invisibility.

Sigh. On the other hand, I'm not sure if breaking invisibility is this simple. Does casting wall of fire break invisibility? If not, then later, when a person lept through the wall, does *that* would break invisibility?!

Dracorat · Oct 27, 2006

Yes, if a person is in the area of effect, and Yes.

evilbob · Oct 27, 2006

Personally, I'm inclined to think that the intent of the invisibility spell description would include directing a ball of fire at someone, but to be technical:

tomBitonti said:
Since the flaming sphere has an area of effect, moving that onto a foe should break invisibility.

Well, no, it doesn't. The spell creates something with mass, but the spell does not have an area of effect. Unless you broaden the term to mean "all areas and potential areas that are or could be effected by the spell," which - although semantically correct and clearly would trigger the invisibility spell caveat - is not how the words "area of effect" are really used in the SRD. So... yeah.

tomBitonti said:
Does casting wall of fire break invisibility? If not, then later, when a person lept through the wall, does *that* would break invisibility?!

I feel confident that an action directed against your spell - even one that would result in the actor being damaged - does not constitute an attack on your part, so I would think this is a clear "no."

Edit: I agree that casting the spell in the first place would only break invisibility if the area included an enemy.

Dracorat · Oct 27, 2006

I feel confident that an action directed against your spell - even one that would result in the actor being damaged - does not constitute an attack on your part, so I would think this is a clear "no."

That position is not supported by Raw. Again, any area of your spell that includes an enemy.

frankthedm · Oct 27, 2006

if you roll a flaming sphere into a square with an enemy

You did it. invisibility breaks. If the sphere automaticly followed the foe once it was cast, or the foe sits down on a sphere, invisibility would not break.