D&D 3E/3.5 d20 3.5 Middle Earth

0-hr · Nov 17, 2006

I have a friend looking to run a Middle Earth game using the 3.5 D&D rules. I figure that we're probably the first people to ever think of this. But just in case the idea has occurred to someone else, I'd love to see what sort of modifications others made to the rule system to capture the flavor of this setting.

Right now, we're mainly looking at an alternate magic system with less flashy stuff (and probably a new base class to replace the current casters). Any other problem areas we should be looking out for (or material to yoink outright

)?

Quartz · Nov 17, 2006

You've got all the MERP books, right?

Nyaricus · Nov 19, 2006

The first to think of this? Naw, not by a long shot

In any case, my homebrew is based Heavily off of Tolkiens works, mixed in with Earth at about 1050 CE with the assumption thrown in that every myth, folklore, legend and religious concept is true. So, the world is in a Dark Age with hobbits in their shires, elves in their woods, dwarves in their mountains, humans on their manors, and monsters pretty much everywhere else

In any case: magic system: Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth Revised is the magic system you should be using for this. It has it's new base classes. Basically the idea is that each spell has 2 round casting times (except for signature spells [special spells developed by/studied by you], which have 1 round casting times) and you can craft whatever sort of spell you want. It's completely open-ended, and is brilliant, to say the very least about it. Also less powerful than the core system, but more versatile (which is something you'd want with Tolkien, IMO).

Other than that, you're going to want a few different classes for D&D in Middle Earth:

Barbarian - there are really very few barbarians in ME. Considered having this as a PrC.
Bard - again, few bards- though possibly common among the elves and to a lesser degree humans and maybe a few rare hobbits.
Cleric & Druid- covered by the EoM Mage class.
Fighter - there are many warriors in ME, so this stays.
Paladin and Monk get ditched.
Ranger - fits right in in ME.
Rogue - fits right in too.
Sorc and Wizard - covered by the EoM Mage class.

Other classes which I think would fit in:

Archivist (HoH) - could work.
Beguiler (PHBII) & Dread Necromancer (HoH) - make great foes, like Sarumon (Beguiler) and Sauron (Dread Necromancer). Yeah, I know, over-simplification, but you get the idea

Knight (PHBII) - fits in with the fighter types.
Marshal (MHB) - fits in with the fighter types (especially if you give 1:1 BAB, like it should have).
Noble (DLCS) - plenty of nobility in ME, so this works.
Scout (ComAdven) - Scout fits in nicely - better than any other splatbook alt class.
Thug (UA) - could fit.

Anyways, just a brief 2 coppers on my behalf.

cheers,
--N

Dannyalcatraz · Nov 19, 2006

You might want to take a look at Midnight. Its a D20 FRPG that I've found has a setting & dynamic very similar to Middle Earth but without being an outright copy.

Some other thoughts...

While Psionics would initially seem out of place, some of the effects used by Tolkien's mages (especially in the film adaptation) are actually better modeled by Psions, especially those who concentrate on telekinetics. The Wilder might also work, but I don't think any of the other psionic classes would.

While I agree with many of the above suggestions, I think Barbarians are relatively common...among the Orcs, at least.

Aus_Snow · Nov 19, 2006

Ki Ryn said:
I have a friend looking to run a Middle Earth game using the 3.5 D&D rules.

Oh, yuk. :\ That can't be good.

I'd love to see what sort of modifications others made to the rule system to capture the flavor of this setting.

Ah, well. That's different.

The forementioned Midnight mightn't be a bad place to *start from*.

Basically, you'd want low magic. . . of course. That seems to be settled already. OK.

Do you know yet what kind of characters will be played, what kind of campaign it might be, and what time/place setting within Middle Earth you're contemplating? These details would help immensely.

Legends of Sorcery (from RPGObjects) is very handy for tweaking the magic level of a d20 fantasy campaign setting. I've had luck (and fun) doing things more or less that way - not Tolkien-based stuff, but low magic anyway. And the beauty of that system (other than its elegant simplicity) is that you can use any magic from D&D sources that you want to, through its 'filter' (or 'lens', perhaps), so to speak. Some of the "Legends of . . ." ready-made classes might even be appropriate, as is. Worth investigating at least, I think.

So much hinges on the questions of what, when & where, that I'll probably just leave it there for now, rather than go on in what might possibly be entirely the wrong direction.

I'll remain intrigued to be hearing how it goes for you though, whether I post here again or not. Please keep us fellow ENWorlders posted, whatever you decide.

edit --- if you like, I can email a bunch of d20 ME stuf I stumbled across ages ago (juet click on my username to do that). It's of mixed quality and relevance, but yeah, if you're interested at all, email me and let me know. It'd be a smallish zip file of mostly .doc files, basically.

Angel Tarragon · Nov 19, 2006

You might want to check this out.

elrobey · Nov 20, 2006

I run a Middle-Earth 3.5 campaign and I haven't changed very much. The key, I think, is to simplify.

I use only three classes: fighter, rogue, sorcerer.

I let a rogue swap out a class ability for any feat that is not a "fighter feat" and not a spellcasting-related feat. Don't want +1d6 sneak attack? Choose something else off the feat list instead.

I don't allow a sorcerer to have Find Familiar. Instead, I give a sorcerer the monk class feature that provides a bonus to AC based on Wisdom.

So you have a combat guy, a skill and feat guy, and an unarmored spellcasting guy.

For spells, obviously you need to tailor the spell list. I took all the 3.5 spells and threw out all the ones that didn't seem appropriate for the setting (e.g., Teleport). I took all the rest and adjusted them under the following rules:

First, every spell that is a Sor/Wiz spell in 3.5E has its Sor/Wiz spell level increased by one (if it is on both the Sor/Wiz list and one or more other lists, such as the Paladin list or Cleric list or whatever, only the Sor/Wiz spell level is affected). Then, every spell is assigned a spell level for campaign purposes equal to the lowest spell level of any class that can cast it.

So, a hypothetical spell that is Druid 1, Bard 5, Sor/Wiz 3 becomes spell level 1 in my campaign (the Sor/Wiz becomes 4, but that is trumped by the Druid 1). A hypothetical spell that is Druid 5, Bard 3, Sor/Wiz 1 becomes spell level 2 in my campaign (the Sor/Wiz becomes 2, which is the lowest.)

Seems to work fine so far.

Nyaricus · Nov 20, 2006

Dannyalcatraz said:
While I agree with many of the above suggestions, I think Barbarians are relatively common...among the Orcs, at least.

Oh, durr. I was thinking about humans and completely forgot about those guys. Yeah, mountain orcs and the like would likely have barbarian levels. Might require a bit of tweaking (trap sense?) but yeah, mostly would work out.

cheers,
--N

Dannyalcatraz · Nov 20, 2006

Danger Sense instead, maybe?

0-hr · Nov 20, 2006

Thanks for the help all, it's given me some good places to start. I like the look of the Legends of Sorcery material in particular.

As for time and place, I'm mainly looking for stuff that could apply in the late 2nd or anywhere in the 3rd age. This campaign will be generally in the north - but hopefully the same ruleset would cover any area.