Is casting a spell with the Evil descriptor an Evil act?

Fat Daddy · Nov 18, 2006

Just what the title asks. If a caster casts a spell with the evil descriptor, is that an evil act?
Example: Summon Monster is used to summon a creature with the fiendish template, the spell gains the evil descriptor (maybe lawful or chaotic as well but that's irrelevant to my question).
Example: Create Undead is a Necromancy[evil] spell. Aside from the fact that many consider the creation of undead an evil act (that is not what I want to discuss).

Is casting these spells an evil act in and of itself. Please give rules references.
Thanks

Scharlata · Nov 18, 2006

Fat Daddy said:
Is casting these spells an evil act in and of itself. Please give rules references.

Hi!

Player's Handbook, 174 (Descriptor): The descriptors are ... evil .... Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with ... alignment, and so on.

Player's Handbook, 32 (Cleric, Spells): However, his alignment may restrict hom from casting certain spells opposed to his moral or ethical beliefs.

Player's Handbook, 33 (Cleric, ... Evil ... Spells): A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or hos deity's. For example, a good cleirc cannot cast evil spells.

Book of Vile Darkness, 77 (Evil Spells): Spells that have the evil descriptor because they do one or more of the following things: they cause undue suffering or negative emotions; they call upon evil gods or energies; they create, summon, or improve undead or other evil monsters; they harm souls; they involve unsavory practices such as cannibalism or drug use.

HTH

Starglim · Nov 18, 2006

I think the emphasis of the Book of Vile Darkness text is suspect here. Few of the PHB [Evil] spells focus on the mundane cruelty emphasised in this description. And .. drug use is [EVIL]? Wonder who was looking over the developer's shoulder that day.

A single casting of an [Evil] spell is not, in itself, an evil act. However, by their nature, the effects and entities produced by such spells tend to (or, given a choice, prefer to) weaken goodly creatures, enhance evil in the world, harm the innocent, cause undue suffering and generally corrupt the caster's moral position. A good-aligned wizard should be wary of using such effects too often.

isoChron · Nov 18, 2006

Maybe they meant use drug on other people, so they become dependend and willing to do what they normally would not.

Whatever, casting an evil spell is an evil act. If you call upon the forces of the abyss and bring terror to the world ... evil. If you drain the last inch of life from a dying creature to bolster your own abilities ... evil.

I think the evil descriptor is just a tool for the DM (and the players) to easily discern that you can't do good with this spell, whatever your intentions are.
In my opinion there is a spell missing: dominate person/monster. Use an other persons body and push aside his mind is an evil act to the boot, but that would be to restricting for the players I think.

IamTheTest · Nov 18, 2006

Id say that its one of the things that slowly changes the alignment of a PC. Seems to fall under DM fiat.

Particle_Man · Nov 18, 2006

isoChron said:
In my opinion there is a spell missing: dominate person/monster. Use an other persons body and push aside his mind is an evil act to the boot, but that would be to restricting for the players I think.

I would agree about the dominate spells. I wonder why they are not evil and yet the seemingly benign deathwatch is.

Fat Daddy · Nov 18, 2006

Particle_Man said:
I would agree about the dominate spells. I wonder why they are not evil and yet the seemingly benign deathwatch is.

I would say it has to do with the spell description:

d20 SRD said:
Using the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife...

That sounds evil to me.

I agree with most of the rationale here, and we have always house-ruled that casting an evil spell is an evil act (and functions according to IamTheTest's post). I think that the rules imply that it is, but what I can't find is anything stating that in the RAW. That is what I am looking for, something in the RAW that says casting a spell with the evil descriptor is an evil act. Does anyone know where it is? Does it not exist?
Thanks again

RigaMortus2 · Nov 18, 2006

Scharlata said:
Hi!

Player's Handbook, 174 (Descriptor): The descriptors are ... evil .... Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with ... alignment, and so on.

Player's Handbook, 32 (Cleric, Spells): However, his alignment may restrict hom from casting certain spells opposed to his moral or ethical beliefs.

Player's Handbook, 33 (Cleric, ... Evil ... Spells): A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or hos deity's. For example, a good cleirc cannot cast evil spells.

Interestingly, this doesn't say what happens if a good-aligned Wizard casts a summon spell with an evil descriptor. Good clerics basically CAN'T cast spells with Evil descriptors even if they wanted to, so there is no dispute there. But for these quotes, it doesn't say anything about a Good Wizard casting such a spell.

JiffyPopTart · Nov 18, 2006

I was helping a fellow player the other day compile his Favored Soul spell choices onto a cheatsheet when I noticed that the spell Wave of Grief was EVIL. It seems kind of strange that a spell that makes you sad is EVIL but a spell that burns you alive (Flamestrike) is cool with everyone.

I would say the actual result of a spell being used is what a GM should judge as good or evil, not the spell itself.

A high-level cleric raiding an orphanage and casting Holy Word (thus killing all the neutral folks in the building) is definatley not a GOOD act.

DS

Simm · Nov 18, 2006

isoChron said:
Whatever, casting an evil spell is an evil act. If you call upon the forces of the abyss and bring terror to the world ... evil. If you drain the last inch of life from a dying creature to bolster your own abilities ... evil.

This seems hypocritical to me. A spell with the good descriptor can easily be used for evil, harming innocents etc., but a spell with the evil descriptor is always evil. It is defiantly easier to commit an evil act with a evil spell than to do it with a good spell but that in no way precludes doing good with an evil spell. It is the intention of the doer that is important.