Converting True Dragons


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  1. #1
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    Converting True Dragons

    This thread is a special version of the "cooperative conversions" in numerous threads, converting a series of monsters from similar sources. For this thread, we will be focusing on true dragons (dragons with age categories) that have appeared in various D&D sources throughout the years.

    What I will do is first post the creature's original stats and flavor text. Then, I will post a basic outline of the things I think it needs, and then I will give you an opportunity to suggest stats and ideas on how powers and abilities should work. Then, I will add more to it and we will continue to discuss it until I feel it's done and time to move on to the next. As we work on these creatures, they will be posted in this thread, and then Homebrews, and will eventually be added to the Creature Catalog. You may comment on monsters already finished, of course.

    The following is a list of true dragons from various D&D sources that haven't yet appeared in official WotC products, the Tome of Horrors, or the Creature Catalog. You may feel free to make suggestions, but ultimately I will pick what to convert and when. If I'm missing any monsters from this list or if any of these have appeared elsewhere already, feel free to inform me. This thread is only intended for dragons with age categories; other dragons should be requested in the thread of their original sources.

    Note that some creatures are listed more than once, as they appear in multiple sources. Also, while some share the names of current official dragons, they may differ greatly and are thus fair game for conversion.

    DMR2 – Creature Catalog
    -Pocket
    -Sea

    Dragon Magazine
    -Beljuril (#265)
    -Bestiary (#199)
    -Faerie (#62) (presented as a true dragon, rather than the Draconomicon version)
    -Fire (#246)
    -Gray (#146)
    -Grey (#62)
    -Hawkdragon (#101)
    -Minidragon (#146)
    -Phase (#94)
    -Pocket (#170)
    -Quazar (#96)(humor)
    -"What's New" (#96)(humor)

    MC9: Spelljammer II
    -Moon
    -Stellar
    -Sun

    MCA1
    -Pearl

    MCA3
    -Cerilian

    MCA4
    -Prismatic (differs from epic version)

    Mystara MC
    -Crystalline
    -Jade
    -Onyx
    -Ruby (Mystara dragon, differs from MMII gem dragons)

    OD&D Master Set
    -Crystal (Mystara dragon, differs from MMII gem dragons)
    -Onyx
    -Jade
    -Sapphire (Mystara dragon, differs from MMII gem dragons)
    -Ruby (Mystara dragon, differs from MMII gem dragons)
    -Tiger's Eye (Brown)

    Savage Coast MC
    -Crimson
    -Red Hawk

    X6 – Quagmire!
    -Pocket
    Last edited by Shade; Monday, 15th September, 2008 at 11:07 PM.
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    Inside my hands these petals browned;
    dried up falling to the ground,
    but it was already too late now.
    I pushed my fingers through the earth,
    returned this flower to the dirt;
    so it could live, I walked away now."

    Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"

 

  • #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
    Dragon Magazine
    -Electrum (#74) (already converted...I just need to upload it)
    -Pink (#156)(humor)

    Monstrous Manual
    -Yellow

    MC4: Dragonlance
    -Amphi
    -Sea

    MC9: Spelljammer II
    -Moon
    -Stellar
    -Sun

    MCA1
    -Jade
    -Pearl

    Mystara MC
    -Jade

    OD&D Master Set
    -Jade
    1. Is this electrum dragon different from Ed Greenwood's electrum dragon from Ruins of Myth Drannor? One has electricity-based abilities, the other I can't remember.
    2. I really want to see the pink dragon as a false chromatic dragon, like Krishnath's homebrew pyrite dragon would be a false metallic dragon, and my glass dragon could be re-written as a false gem dragon.
    3. The Bestiary of Krynn has the amphidragon, while Age of Mortals has the turtle-like sea dragon (depicted here).
    4. The stellar (and radiant - not the extraplanar dragon from Celestia) dragons ought to be epic, IMO.
    5. How do we distinguish dragons that share the same name - yellow, jade (I have my own jade dragon at the WotC psionics forum), etc? Do we rename them, or add a place name?
    6. I saw your amber dragon, which is different from the one I made and grouped with the pearl dragon as jewel dragons distantly related to gem dragons.

    Well, that's it for now. Can't wait for your stats, that's gonna be a big job.
    Last edited by RavinRay; Thursday, 23rd November, 2006 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Links to Dragonlance sources
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade

    Dragon Magazine
    ...
    -Night (#74, #163)
    ...
    The night dragon in 163, IMHO, would work best as a template.

    Is the version in 74 the same? Haven't seen issue 74.

    The version in 163 is also in the Champions of Mystara boxed set.

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  • #4
    The energy, salt, and sodium dragons are respectively, the purple, yellow, and orange dragons. Those are in Dragon Compendium.

    No, the night dragon from Dragon #74 is not the same as the Mystaran dragon.

  • #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavinRay
    1. Is this electrum dragon different from Ed Greenwood's electrum dragon from Ruins of Myth Drannor? One has electricity-based abilities, the other I can't remember.
    2. I really want to see the pink dragon as a false chromatic dragon, like Krishnath's homebrew pyrite dragon would be a false metallic dragon, and my glass dragon could be re-written as a false gem dragon.
    3. The Bestiary of Krynn has the amphidragon, while Age of Mortals has the turtle-like sea dragon (depicted here).
    4. The stellar (and radiant - not the extraplanar dragon from Celestia) dragons ought to be epic, IMO.
    5. How do we distinguish dragons that share the same name - yellow, jade (I have my own jade dragon at the WotC psionics forum), etc? Do we rename them, or add a place name?
    6. I saw your amber dragon, which is different from the one I made and grouped with the pearl dragon as jewel dragons distantly related to gem dragons.

    Well, that's it for now. Can't wait for your stats, that's gonna be a big job.
    Hello!

    1.) It appears to be the same.
    2.) We'll see when we get to it.
    3.) We'll probably skip those, then.
    4.) See #2.
    5.) We'll probably keep the original names of any dragons that don't have official 3E creatures with conficting names, go with "Mystaran" for the non-psionic gem dragons that originated in OD&D and Mystara, and rename those that are in direct conflict but don't fall under another category (i.e., prismatic might become "lesser prismatic", "spectrum" or something else).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis
    The night dragon in 163, IMHO, would work best as a template.
    Then we'll leave that one for another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayLinnorm
    No, the night dragon from Dragon #74 is not the same as the Mystaran dragon.
    But this one is fair game.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayLinnorm
    The energy, salt, and sodium dragons are respectively, the purple, yellow, and orange dragons. Those are in Dragon Compendium.
    I thought I'd get those wrong. That means the original purple, yellow, and orange dragons might be eligible for conversion (and would need a name change).
    Last edited by Shade; Friday, 24th November, 2006 at 07:20 AM.
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    Inside my hands these petals browned;
    dried up falling to the ground,
    but it was already too late now.
    I pushed my fingers through the earth,
    returned this flower to the dirt;
    so it could live, I walked away now."

    Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"

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    Here are the basic conversion guidelines I'd like to follow for the true dragons.

    • If the dragon has all its age categories listed, we'll compare to one of the metallic or chromatics of the same era to get a baseline for Hit Dice, ability scores, etc.
    • Since we've yet to figure out the formula for dragon spell resistance in 3E/3.5, we'll probably just look at the old magic resistance values and find a similar metallic or chromatic dragon to use as a baseline.
    • If no age categories were given (as was often the case in 1E), but the creature is clearly a true dragon, we'll assume its given Hit Dice are for a juvenile and compare to a similar metallic or chromatic dragon to use as a baseline and extrapolate the other age categories. (If I'm wrong about the juvenile age as the standard, let me know, but I found several past threads where we seemed to find this to be true).
    • If dragons had a kick ability in previous editions, we're dropping it, as all others have dropped them in 3E.
    - Shade

    Support the Pathfinder RPG.

    Save the succubus, save the Wheel.

    "Hairy balls of the Gods!" - Korgoth of Barbaria

    "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins
    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
    "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
    "I have no plans to die today..." - Thor, Thor
    "We have a Hulk." - Tony Stark, The Avengers
    "Hulk...smash." - Captain America, The Avengers

    Inside my hands these petals browned;
    dried up falling to the ground,
    but it was already too late now.
    I pushed my fingers through the earth,
    returned this flower to the dirt;
    so it could live, I walked away now."

    Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"

  • #7
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    Let's get started....

    Dragon, Neutral, Jacinth
    Climate/Terrain: Desert
    Frequency: Very Rare
    Organization: Solitary
    Activity Cycle: Any
    Diet: Special
    Intelligence: Genius (17-18)
    Treasure: See below
    Alignment: Neutral
    No. Appearing: 1
    Armor Class: 1 (base)
    Movement: 9, Fl 27(B)
    Hit Dice: 9 (base)
    Thac0: 13 (base)
    No. of Attacks: 3 plus special
    Damage/Attack: 1d6+1 (x2)/4d6
    Special Attacks: Spells, breath weapon, special
    Special Defenses: Spells, special
    Magic Resistance: See below
    Size: H-G (16' base length)
    Morale: Fanatic (17-18)
    XP Value: See below

    Jacinth dragons may be the rarest of any nonunique dragon species; only a dozen at most exist on any given world.

    The hide of a jacinth sparkles and shifts with many shades of flame-bright orange in seemingly constant motion.

    Jacinth dragons speak their own language, and they can communicate telepathically with any other creature having that ability, as well as creatures with Intelligence of 18 or higher.

    Combat: A jacinth dragon breathes a cone of scalding air 1 foot wide at the mouth, 50 feet long, and 20 feet wide at its terminus, igniting easily combustible materials (e.g., paper, oil, and cloth) unless they successfully save vs. normal fire. A successful save vs. breath weapon indicates, as with most dragons, that a character suffers only half damage from such an attack.

    Using riddling talk and personal charm, jacinths can entrance those who are involved in combat or otherwise distracted. Anyone within 90 feet who listens to a jacinth has a 10% cumulative chance per round to become affected as by a suggestion spell. A successful save vs. spell indicates that the character can resist the charm for at least six rounds, after which there's a 5% cumulative chance to be charmed. Those who successfully save twice can't be charmed by that dragon.

    Furthermore, the jacinth dragon has the innate ability to interplay the shades of its skin so as to have a hypnotic effect on viewers. Thus, after three rounds of a peaceful encounter, the dragon can attack with a +3 bonus to surprise rolls if necessary. In addition, the hide reflects sunlight so brightly that any creature who gazes for more than two rounds upon the dragon on a particularly sunny day is blinded for 5d6 rounds unless the victim rolls a successful save vs. spell.

    Due to its relatively small size, the fear aura of a neutral dragon allows a +4 bonus to opponent's saving throws. Also, neutrals cannot polymorph themselves unless they carry the spell of the same name. However, they do have the innate ability to blink six times per day (as a 10th-level caster).

    Habitat/Society: Jacinth dragons make their homes in large deserts, enjoying the hot, dry climate. Over the years, the species has developed the ability to go for weeks without water or food. They shun all other forms of life and enjoy their solitude, though they can at times be overly curious of visitors.

    Like all dragons, jacinths have a passion for treasure, especially for the stone after which they are named. Hence, they venture out to obtain what little treasure they have, and it is by these excursions that they are known to humans.

    Ecology: No jacinth dragon hides have ever been taken or sold. The only creatures known to prey upon them are adventurers.

    Age Body Lgt. Tail Lgt. AC Breath Wizard/Priest Spells MR Treasure XP Value
    1 1-4 1-4 4 2d4 Nil Nil Nil 7,000
    2 5-8 5-7 3 3d4 2/1 Nil Nil 8,000
    3 9-14 8-10 2 4d4 2 2 /2 Nil Nil 9,000
    4 15-18 11-13 1 5d4 2 2 2 /2 1 Nil E,T 11,000
    5 19-20 14-16 0 6d4 2 2 2 2/2 2 15% H,R,T 14,000
    6 21-22 17-19 -1 7d4 2 2 2 2 2/2 2 1 20% H,R,Tx2 15,000
    7 23-26 20-22 -2 8d4 2 2 2 2 2 2/2 2 2 25% H,R,Tx2 16,000
    8 27-28 23-25 -3 9d4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2/2 2 2 1 30% H,I,R,Tx3 17,000
    9 29-30 26-28 -4 10d4 3 3 2 2 2 2 2/2 2 2 2 35% H,I,R,Tx4 18,000
    10 31-32 29-31 -5 11d4 3 3 3 3 2 2 2/2 2 2 2 1 40% H,Ix2,R,Tx4 19,000
    11 33-34 32-34 -6 12d4 3 3 3 3 3 3 2/2 2 2 2 2 45% H,Ix2,R,Tx4 20,000
    12 35-36 35-37 -7 13d4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2/3 3 3 2 2 50% H,Ix3,R,Tx5 21,000

    Source: Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume One


    I don't believe these fellas appeared anywhere else.
    Last edited by Shade; Monday, 27th November, 2006 at 06:11 PM.
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    Save the succubus, save the Wheel.

    "Hairy balls of the Gods!" - Korgoth of Barbaria

    "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins
    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
    "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
    "I have no plans to die today..." - Thor, Thor
    "We have a Hulk." - Tony Stark, The Avengers
    "Hulk...smash." - Captain America, The Avengers

    Inside my hands these petals browned;
    dried up falling to the ground,
    but it was already too late now.
    I pushed my fingers through the earth,
    returned this flower to the dirt;
    so it could live, I walked away now."

    Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"

  • #8
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    With a base of 9 Hit Dice, no comparable metallic or chromatic dragons can be found for comparison. Even the lowly white was base 11. Expanding into the gem dragons and some of the misc. dragons (shadow, steel, mercury, etc.), we find none with base HD that low.

    The amber dragon and vishap actually have a lower base (8 for both), and Krishnath and the team converted them to the same progression as white dragons (3-36 HD). Any opposition to doing the same for these fellas?
    - Shade

    Support the Pathfinder RPG.

    Save the succubus, save the Wheel.

    "Hairy balls of the Gods!" - Korgoth of Barbaria

    "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins
    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
    "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
    "I have no plans to die today..." - Thor, Thor
    "We have a Hulk." - Tony Stark, The Avengers
    "Hulk...smash." - Captain America, The Avengers

    Inside my hands these petals browned;
    dried up falling to the ground,
    but it was already too late now.
    I pushed my fingers through the earth,
    returned this flower to the dirt;
    so it could live, I walked away now."

    Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"

  • #9
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    Hawkdragon - Dragon #101
    don't quote me on that.

    I am the D&D guru on Wikipedia (because no one else wanted the job!) so check out the D&D Wikiproject!

  • #10
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    sorry to break the train of thought once it got moving, but i've been meaning to post that one for days. there are probably others, when i think of them...
    don't quote me on that.

    I am the D&D guru on Wikipedia (because no one else wanted the job!) so check out the D&D Wikiproject!

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