Converting True Dragons

Gothenem · Feb 12, 2007

Shade said:
I'm not real familiar with the truespeaker but a sidebar would be fine.

Otherwise, Spellcraft should work as the third skill.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that if it wasn't core (PHB, DMG, MM, possibly ELH and XPH) that it would be relegated to Sidebar status.

Shade · Feb 13, 2007

Time to revisit this....

Multiple Heads (Ex): Each of a rain dragon's two heads can take a standard action each round. Thus, it may make two bite attacks, use two breath weapons, or any combination of the two each round. It adds its Strength modifier to damage for its snake head, and 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier to damage with its jaguar head. Tlalocoatls can attack with both their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round.

or

Multiple Heads (Ex): Each of a rain dragon's two heads can take a standard action each round. Thus, it may make two bite attacks, use two breath weapons, or any combination of the two each round. It adds its Strength modifier to damage for its snake head, and 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier to damage with its jaguar head. Tlalocoatls can attack with both their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round. A tlalocoatl can only use one spell or spell-like ability each round. A tlalocoatl only gets one move action each round.

or

Multiple Heads (Ex): Each of a rain dragon's two heads can take a standard action each round. Thus, each round it can take 2 standard actions and one move action or one full round action and one standard action. It adds its Strength modifier to damage for its snake head, and 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier to damage with its jaguar head. Tlalocoatls can attack with both their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round. A tlalocoatl cannot use its extra standard action to perform a move-equivalent action.

I think I'm leaning towards the third option. Thoughts?

Gothenem · Feb 13, 2007

I agree. The third option is the best IMHO. It covers all bases.

RavinRay · Feb 14, 2007

Me three!

Shade · Feb 15, 2007

Majority rules. We'll go with option #3.

I updated the entry over in homebrews.

I moved transmute rock to mud from very old to old, to spread out the abilitiy distribution better. Does anyone see a problem with that?

For the constrict attack, we have several precedents we can follow:

The pan lung gains the ability at young adult age and deals 1d8 at Large, 2d6 at Huge, and 3d6 at Gargantuan size. It adds 1-1/2 times is Str modifier.

Sea Serpents (Dragon #345) work like so...

Constrict (Ex): A sea serpent of Medium size or larger deals damage with a successful grapple check. The amount of damage dealt depends upon the creature's size, as indicated on the following chart. The sea serpent adds 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus on damage rolls made to constrict.

Size Constrict Damage
Medium 1d8
Large 2d8
Huge 3d8
Gargantuan 4d8
Colossal 6d8

I think I like the sea serpent method best, as it is the most recent.

Do we want to give them improved grab as well?

Gothenem · Feb 15, 2007

The transmute move is cool with me.

Constrict should work like the sea serpent. I prefer the Tlalocoatl constricting early, which would be with Medium size, as opposed to large.

As for Improved Grab: Perhaps only for the snake head, but not the jaguar head.

RavinRay · Feb 18, 2007

I agree with the larger values for constrict as well, and I'd bet if the pan lung were updated to 3.5 it might use those values as well. What's the advantage of the serpent head over the jaguar head for Improved Grab?

Shade · Feb 19, 2007

Since the serpent's head gets a poison attack, how about granting improved grab to the jaguar head?

RavinRay · Feb 20, 2007

I was wondering that if we apply real-world animals for the heads, then the snake head might have improved grab because a snake's teeth are designed to grab hold and not let go because they all point backward and are difficult to disengage from the object struck. But Shade made a good point about the snake head already having a special attack with poison, so I'll go with him on this.