How Would You Defend A Mountain Fortress?

mmadsen · Jul 20, 2002

I've got no one under my command who excels at tunnel fighting. Therefore the fortress is vulnerable to attack from below if the Valloreans can command large numbers of Dwarfs, Gnomes, etc.

While discussing Goblins defending their subterranean kingdom, Agback said:

Depending on rock type, a miner with hand tools can make a passage wide enough for a person his size to walk through about one foot long per day of work. So figure a mile of 5'x5' tunnel as thirty-goblin-years labour invested in the digging alone, plus the cost of removing and disposing of nine thousand tonnes of spoil.

The maximum rate of tunneling is with two goblins side-by-side, three shifts per day. That will take five years to dig a mile of 5'x5' tunnel through moderately hard rock.

If those numbers are correct, I don't expect mundane miners to pose a threat. Magical mining, on the other hand...

mmadsen · Jul 20, 2002

My air force is pathetic. What have the Valloreans got in terms of air assault forces?

SHARK states:

As for aerial forces, the Valloreans can expect to field units of Pegasus-cavalry, as well as Griffon-Assault troops. There are also enchanted Giant Eagles that have been known to land groups of flying commandos who often soften up the landing area with several Meteor Swarms, followed by globes of exploding Daylight. They also have enchanted globes of Holy Water, as well as specially prepared equipment.

I wouldn't think of them as air force so much as air cavalry -- the real threat comes when they hit the ground. Anyway, one good batch of 50 Beast Bane arrows should show those Griffon assault troops a good time. What are some good ack-ack, pardon, AAA spells?

mmadsen · Jul 20, 2002

The problem with trying to have the Vampires infiltrate the Valloreans is that the Valloreans have too much experience fighting them in SHARK's world. They same with the Were-creatures.

True, Zenon. As SHARK later stated:

The Valloreans have special assault groups that specifically track and hunt down vampires wherever they are. Likewise, every Company in a Vallorean Legion have access to various supplies and equipment to detect, see, pursue, and fight invisible and undead attackers.

I'd like a few more specifics, m'self. Is it hopeless to send Vampires (in small groups or en masse) at the legions? Or it simply unlikely that they'll sneak in, Dominate everyone, and spawn more Vampires?

Use of real-time intelligence to draw an enemy force into a kill zone. The kill zones would not be pre-determined, but established to react to enemy movements. There is too much area to try to defend.

What would a "kill zone" look like though?

I would place at least one agent in each [small settlement] armed with a single use magic item of Whispering Wind.

Sounds reasonable.

I would then utilize the vampires to turn anything in the armies path into a vampire spawn (if less than 5th level) or true vampire (if higher level). Lycanthropes take too long to be able to control their powers to create from scratch.

It certainly seem like 4-HD Vampire Spawn should be a whole lot tougher than 1-HD Commoners.

While harrassing enemy supply lines, destroy beasts of burden and infect as many soldiers with lycanthopy and vampirism as possible. Use hit and run tactics. This will generate a strain upon enemy resouces (clerical) to heal/cure troops.

How easy is it to hit and run with epic-level adventurers chasing you down? It seems like that changes the rules of engagement a bit.

If they choose to use adventurer types against the stronghold, an RDF of high level will be kept on alert for this eventuality. The object will be to allow entry of the adventurers, then cutoff retreat, envelop and overcome. Care must be taken to insure being able to cutoff retreat by teleport, etherial and astral travel, etc. Planar allies can be gathered to watch, report incursions, and then cut of escapes. Strategic areas in the stronghold should be warded to provide silent alarms to incursions (things like gatehouses, storerooms, etc.)

Figuring out the logistics of all that sounds like a full-time job. What are the standard anti-teleport procedures?

Overall, I would suggest an offensive strategy instead of a defensive one.

With so much magical mobility and not much magical defense, that does sound like the way to go.

mmadsen · Jul 20, 2002

The party are composed of characters that are between 30th and 60th level, with numerous cohorts and followers from 15th to 20th level.

Do they need the Vallorean legions? I'm only being slightly facetious. What's an example of what a 60th-level character can do? It sounds like he could just choose to wipe out a few thousand enemies with a sweep of his hand. And what happens when he goes up against his 50th-level enemy?

Zenon · Jul 20, 2002

mmadsen said:
What would a "kill zone" look like though?

That's hard to say. You won't be able to set up anything ahead of time, you have to use what's available on the fly. I spoke in generalities, but I'm fairly sure SHARK is well versed/familiar with the old "improvise, adapt, overcome" method of doing things and is much more well-versed in his world than I am!

mmadsen said:
How easy is it to hit and run with epic-level adventurers chasing you down? It seems like that changes the rules of engagement a bit.

Well, yes and no. Use that "overconfidence" against them. Hit and Run with the "cheese" to a trap, then let their epic-level adventurers walk into an epic-level ambush, using your own epic-level forces.

mmadsen said:
Figuring out the logistics of all that sounds like a full-time job. What are the standard anti-teleport procedures?

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook goes into some detail about magical defenses for fortresses. I figured I leave the details to SHARK. The key is, you want them to check in, but not check out, just like a Roach Motel. Most raids do not carry the supplies etc, to maintain a long/extended battle (think Black Hawk Down for example. They went in overconfident and underprepared.). If you can cut off that force, you can eventually wear them down baring a miracle (no, not the spell...but if you're thinking the spell remember you have spells like that on your side to. Use a Miracle to cancel a Miracle!).

mmadsen said:
With so much magical mobility and not much magical defense, that does sound like the way to go.

That's the first thing that came to my mind. If you have static defenses and choose to let the enemy pick the time and place of engagement, you will risk pitting a part of your force (because they are spread out to cover everything) against a concentrated, powerful, prepared enemy group. It would be better to act first and do this to them rather than wait for them to do it to you.

Zenon · Jul 20, 2002

mmadsen said:
Do they need the Vallorean legions? I'm only being slightly facetious. What's an example of what a 60th-level character can do? It sounds like he could just choose to wipe out a few thousand enemies with a sweep of his hand. And what happens when he goes up against his 50th-level enemy?

Heh, I remember once when SHARK posted a list of his PC and their cohorts with their rough levels in D&D. It was impressive (60's to 30's for levels, and it was a fair sized list).

The thing about SHARKS workld is that it is truly "Epic" and larger-than-life, based on its Rolemaster beginnings. But epic good guys have epic bad guys to oppose them in SHARK's world and sweeping storylines to move them along.

That's why I'm curious to see what he and his players have to say about their new "conversions" to the ELH.

mmadsen · Jul 20, 2002

The Valloreans will not be merciful, nor will they spare the city populations. Anything that seems tainted and wicked in whatever manner, can be expected to be put to the sword, or burned at the stake. Be prepared for ferocious, relentless, and absolutely ruthless attacks by the Valloreans.
...
The party then led the assault forces of the Vallorean Empire that began a great invasion of the Kingdom of Galleran. From that point on, the Valloreans proceeded to conquer perhaps 12 enemy cities, and a vast area of territory. Each city had a population of at least 500,000 people. Several had over one million people. The slaughter and death was everywhere.

It would seem that the people of our cities should expect to be put to the sword. But I, as their undying ruler, offer a better alternative: Immortality in the Midnight Legions!

More seriously, it seems that the city folk and nearby farmers expect a massive invasion, and expect no quarter. They should be willing to scorch the earth, raze their villages and any buildings outside the city walls, conscript soldiers, and so on.

If they know that their Vampires are their saviors, perhaps the whole city walks around at night in white makeup. Or maybe they volunteer for the, ahem, blood drive. Or they can dig crypts for their Vampires -- and false crypts to confuse special-forces teams of enemy adventurers.

Wicht · Jul 20, 2002

I'll put in my vote for softening up the enemy with a couple of good old fashioned plagues first. Find some infected rats and have the vampires send them into the enemy camp. Poison the food with mild constitution lowering drugs to weaken the enemies tolerance to disease.

Next bury ghouls in fields (they won't suffocate) as an undead type mine field. When the enemy walks over, the ghouls attack from below. Their paralyzation will disrupt formations and weaken the enemy allowing fresh hobgoblin and human troops to come in and complete the slaughter. Allow the newly dead to rise as ghouls and you have a larger ghoul force.

Cast desecrate over the whole region so that your undead are stronger.

mmadsen · Jul 20, 2002

Re: Re: How Would You Defend A Mountain Fortress?

Some more thoughts on our forces:

Our Wang-Liang are effectively Trolls that can turn invisible or disguise themselves.

Further, our Half-Fiend Wang-Liang, like Half-Fiend Trolls, resist acid and fire, normally their two great vulnerabilities. As long as they don't face the Champions of Vallorea, they can cut down legions with impunity -- and eat them.

They can also ambush quite effectively, using their invisibility.

I don't know the Vallorean countermeasures, but I suspect their scouts and sentries can see through illusions and can spot invisible enemies. This makes it hard to pull off a true ambush or infiltration. On the other hand, if a wave of "Ogres" attacks, it doesn't matter that a sentry or two recognizes a Wang-Liang for every ten Ogres; it won't occur to the Vallorean rank and file to deploy their limited acid and fire weapons on "Ogres".

The Vampires have many stengths and at least a few obvious weaknesses.

One serious limitation for the Vampires is that, although they're quite mobile -- they can cover 9 miles in two hours -- they can only sortie from an "airbase" with their coffins. They can't penetrate enemy territory. As long as they're within 9 miles of that base though, they're practically impossible to kill -- gaseous form gets them back to safety. I assume they'll want to sortie from the Mountain Citadel, but a few hidden crypts in the woods and in town might allow them to strike unexpectedly and spy more effectively -- but the legions' Vampire Hunters will most likely track them back to those crypts and clear them out in daylight.

Again, the two nearby cities might find their "noncombatants" (women and old men) quickly conscripted into the Midnight Legions.

As with the Wang-Liang disguised as Ogres, Vampires don't have to advertise their nature. Armed as soldiers, adult, male Vampires should blend in fine (during a night attack).

In the vast forests, [Werewolves] should make good scouts and quasi-cavalry, and they may have enough wolves there to command as auxiliaries.

Also, as quasi-cavalry who can forage well -- especially in woods, farmland, and human villages -- the Werewolves can work behind enemy lines. The legions can't reasonably track down wolves, and if they can draw away the Pegasus and Griffon units, so much the better; the legions lose their eyes in the sky.

Brisk-sg · Jul 20, 2002

With the combined might of our wizards, Clerics, and Druids, we could likely cast at least 1 of every spell in the PHB, FRCS, MoF, and all of the splat books at the exact same time, in the exact same direction. Not sure what that would do, but it would be messy I am sure.

*Just an Odd thought*

-Josh