Necromancy army VS Leadership army

Kavok · Dec 19, 2006

Discuss. My DM believes that necromancy armies are vastly overpowered when controlled by a PC. Are they?

Moonstone Spider · Dec 19, 2006

Can you provide any more information? The level of the characters involved, for instance?

durza120 · Dec 19, 2006

Perhaps. I was a 17th lvl clerik with an undead army of zombies (and a skeleton of a moutain giant, which scares the crap out of just about everyone.) Combinded with commander of undead you can wield an army of over a hundred, not to mention if you desecrate the ground on which you create them, allowing you to create even more, as well as improving their stats. So i quess your dm was right.

Seeten · Dec 19, 2006

My Wizard 6/Pale Master 10/Archmage 2 was pretty nasty. I had Leadership(Cleric Cohort of Undeadness) and Undead Leadership(Lich Necromancer) who both also had armies of undead. The Cleric was the PrC in LM that summons incorporeals.

I had all dice ready and color coded, and acted my turns, and those of my 27 minions, out quickly, but everyone rolled their eyes each time.

Crothian · Dec 19, 2006

Kavok said:
Discuss. My DM believes that necromancy armies are vastly overpowered when controlled by a PC. Are they?

The DM is right. The DM is the only one that can say if something is overpowered in his game.

Sejs · Dec 19, 2006

Kavok said:
Discuss. My DM believes that necromancy armies are vastly overpowered when controlled by a PC. Are they?

Honestly, from a logistics standpoint, they'd kinda suck.

The primary benefits of an undead army (assuming mostly skeletons and zombies) is that they have zero supply requirements and don't get tired. Means no vulnerable supply lines, no food issues and no downtime.

The primary drawbacks of an undead army consisting of skeletons and zombies: they're mindless. They do -nothing- unless expressly ordered to. You're required to micromanage. Means no soldier incentive or initiative, units can't act independantly, etc. Means they are very easy to outmaneuver and outsmart. If you have a corps of assistant necromancers or clerics on your side that can act as unit commanders you're a bit better off, doubly so if your army has more intelligent undead in it.

In summary, undead armies: cheap but dumb. They make great fodder, but you don't want them to be the only thing you've got going.

Kavok · Dec 19, 2006

Lets get some more specifics:

Level 6 Bard + Leadership VS Level 6 Cleric or Dread Necromancer

I think some of the best arguments were mad in the last post:

Undead-
Zero supply
Unintelligent / Has to be micromanaged

Darklone · Dec 19, 2006

Undead = zero supply

I don't agree. Skeletons and Zombies do really start to rock if you buy them weapons and armours and then start to enhance their abilities with Desecrate and Unhallow (granted, pretty hard to use in any other scenario than defence).

Put some wights and vampires in the same uniforms as the lower undeads into the ranks.

And what keeps you as the big necromancer from having Leadership and a vampire bodyguard cohort?

Vuron · Dec 19, 2006

From a purely PC balance perspective I'd venture the Necromancy army is slightly more powerful but the leadership follower army is significantly more flexible.

Looking at it from a less game oriented aspect the army o' zombies or skeletons have a significant logistics saving over a humanoid army as they don't need a baggage train, healers, etc.

However zombie armies are slow moving, largely incapable of sophisticated tactics, vulnerable to collected cleric turning, etc.

In contrast given the financial resources of a powerful lord humanoid warriors can be well armed and be given horses to increase thier mobility edge. If your army is largely heavy cavalry it has a significant power mobility advantage over the undead army.

For the most part zombies and skeletons provide a useful meat shield (not that humanoid warriors don't) for the stronger undead within your army. Wights, Ghasts, etc begin to give significant advantages over most human troops and are generally self-replenishing resources.